Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God

Christian Classics Ethereal Library ^ | July 8, 1741 | Jonathan Edwards

[Just mythoughts]

I’m not really sure what you’re actually talking about, or what it is you are hoping to demonstrate. Keep in mind, I am speaking of what Peter directly said was being fulfilled, specifically in reference to the “pouring out” of the Spirit “on all flesh.” I am arguing that this began as Peter spoke it, which is then fulfilled everytime the Spirit falls on people, regardless of race or gender. (Thus, “all people” refers to this concept, not that God is predicting Universalism.) You didn’t actually acknowledge that Peter does indeed apply the prophecy to what was then happening. The only thing that can really be debated on is what is the meaning of “last days,” but that was not the main portion of my point, which was to refute the other fellow who was trying to make a Universalist argument out of the phrase “pouring out on all flesh.”

God gave the prophecy to Joel. Peter made Joel's prophecy part of the New Testament. What was 'fulfilled' was that Christ told His apostle to 'wait' until the 'Comforter' or Holy Spirit was given/sent. This was done on Pentecost Day. There is yet to be a repeat of what took place on Pentecost Day wherein the voice spoken will be understood without the need of an interpreter.

I know of no similar repeat wherein one voice spoke and every one hearing of a multitude of languages understood without the aide of an interpreter.

So, if you are trying to argue for a particular eschatological system, I am not familiar with it, and I’m not particularly concerned with it.

I do not understand these words. I do not have nor do I use a 'system'. I seek to understand what instruction the Heavenly Father took the time to have His elect write down for me to know so I will not be deceived.

You cite this as a demonstration of what really is the pouring out of the spirit: Mar 13:11 But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost. In which case, this has certainly been exampled already by the Apostles themselves. You said earlier “even on the daughters,” and that was fulfilled too. In fact, everything in Joel’s prophecy was rightfully fulfilled in terms of the spiritual gifts that were then to come to the church.

NOT without an interpreter.

To return to eschatology, which is not my main point, Joel declares that this would happen before the “great and terrible day of the Lord.” And certainly the lines “the last days” does not automatically mean the last days of the entire world. It can just as easily mean the last days of the Jewish Old Testament system. Hence why Christ, when replying to the dual question of when shall the end be, and when shall the end of Jerusalem be, tells us that there would be those who were yet alive who would see these calamities come.

God was not playing mind games when He had Joel write 'last days'.

This certainly allows, at the very least, for the destruction of Jerusalem and the Holy Temple to stand as a fulfillment of Christ’s immediate words, as well as serve as a type of an even greater desolation to occur at the end of time. Whatever the case, these ideas were not the main part of my point, which was merely to refute the universalist’s abuse of Joel’s prophecy.

Christ said destroy this temple and it will be rebuilt in 3 days, strange that He did not use that physical temple as cause for our concern.

[Greetings_Puny_Humans]

“God gave the prophecy to Joel. Peter made Joel’s prophecy part of the New Testament. What was ‘fulfilled’ was that Christ told His apostle to ‘wait’ until the ‘Comforter’ or Holy Spirit was given/sent. This was done on Pentecost Day. There is yet to be a repeat of what took place on Pentecost Day wherein the voice spoken will be understood without the need of an interpreter.”

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If you are saying that the “pouring out of the spirit on all flesh” was fulfilled in Pentecost, per Peter, but is going to be ‘repeated’ again later, I suppose that is a perfectly acceptable opinion, though I myself disagree with it. I have seen the Pentecostals claim this, since they consider an end-times revival as necessary to precede the end; however, the “pouring out of the Spirit” has never ended, since it occurs every time a believer is filled by the Holy Spirit. There has never been a lack of power in the believers either. Even in the realm of great miracles, they have always happened (even in my own life), and certainly you see this even in the lives of the great reformers. I have read biographies, for example, of the Scottish reformers, that include events that would remind you of the Prophets of old. For something to “repeat,” it must have ended, but nothing has actually ended from what began in Peter’s day.

“Christ said destroy this temple and it will be rebuilt in 3 days, strange that He did not use that physical temple as cause for our concern.”

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I have no idea what this has to do with what I actually said.

I’ll end things with this, since my concern was just to refute the Universalist abuses, and not to get into a debate on the end-times in this particular thread.