Posted on 12/10/2013 5:23:53 AM PST by CynicalBear
And Jimmy was right. He was just a hypocrite.
"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith" That entire process mentioned -- "being saved by grace through faith" -- is a gift from God. We didn't come up with it. God came up with it. Essentially it is saying that "the plan of salvation" is a gift from God. That plan is: "saved by grace through faith."
So, these verse don't really address to whom the plan is offered. The chapter in question is specifically referencing those already Christians to whom Paul is writing. On down in the chapter it applies this plan to those Gentiles or Jews who participate in it.
So, from THIS chapter we know only that it applies to those who participate in it. I don't know anyone who disagrees with that except (off the top of my head) universalists.
From elsewhere in scripture, Romans 8:29 - "Romans 8:29 NIV
For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.
Peter says in 1Pe1 we are the elect 2 who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and sprinkling by his blood
Who are these elect whom God has foreknown and predestined? Paul spells it out, in my opinion, in Romans 8:
22 We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time. 23 Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies. 24 For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what he already has? 25 But if we hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently. 26 In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness.
It is those who were saved through this hope of redemption in Christ who are the "foreknown" in verse 29 of Romans 8.
And nothing will separate us from the love of God which is ours through Christ Jesus our Lord.
Your definitions are lacking.
** Don’t take Scripture out of context. Read what comes before and after the passage you’re looking at to get a clear picture of what it is actually saying. Don’t do “proof” texts, which are usually isolated verses taken out of context. Much false doctrine comes from taking Scripture out of context and mixing it with human reasoning. You can “prove” just about anything you want to by taking Scripture out of context but that doesn’t make it so and it really doesn’t prove anything.**
So true, and I wish people would not do it here on FR.
RELIGION
The moral virtue by which a person is disposed to render to God the worship and service he desrves. It is sometimes identified with the virtue of justice toward God, whose rights are rooted in his complete dominion over all creation. Religion is also a composite of all the virtues that arise from a human being's relationship to God as the author of his or her being, even as love is a cluster of all the virtues arising from human response to God as the destiny of his or her being. Religion thus corresponds to the practice of piety toward God as Creator of the universe. (Etym. probably Latin religare, to tie , fasten, bind, or relegere, to gather up, treat with care.)
All items in this dictionary are from Fr. John Hardon's Modern Catholic Dictionary, © Eternal Life. Used with permission.
SALVATION
In biblical language the deliverance from straitened circumstances or oppression by some evil to a state of freedom and security. As sin is the greatest evil, salvation is mainly liberation from sin and its consequences. This can be deliverance by way of preservation, or by offering the means for being delivered, or by removing the oppressive evil or diffculty, or by rewarding the effort spent in co-operating with grace in order to be delivered. All four aspects of salvation are found in the Scriptures and are taught by the Church. (Etym. Latin salvare, to save.)
All items in this dictionary are from Fr. John Hardon's Modern Catholic Dictionary, © Eternal Life. Used with permission.
Visiting widows and orphans? Sounds like “works” to me. Unnecessary, right?
“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
“Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’
“Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’
“The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’
“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’
“They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’
“He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’
Thank you for your well thought out theological response. You wouldn’t care to expound on why you think it’s a lie would you?
religion is of the spirit world not of man
Are you saying that man has to add something to what Christ did to obtain salvation?
It doesn’t save, but is a reflection of someone who is saved.
So do you stress outward actions or an inward desire for Christ in your sermons?
C-bear, you posted: Ephesians 2:8-9, “For by grace are you saved through faith, it is the gift of God; not of works, lest any man should boast.”
***
You nailed it. Faith is not so much a choice; it is a gift of God. We should remember this so that we don’t brag about our own faith, and so that we don’t act unkindly to those who do not (yet) believe.
And while we can’t make anyone believe, we CAN be one of the means by which God gives the gift of faith to one who presently doesn’t believe.
Works may help deepen our faith, but it also is EVIDENCE of our faith, shown to others.
Another thought crossed my mind— If you believe in God, and in Christ as Savior, and you don’t do what God says to do, what does that mean? Is it not pure rebellion against God? Or is it a demonstration of a lack of faith, or too shallow a faith?
There abides these three.... faith, hope, and love. And the greatest of these is Love.
I don’t guess I know this “Charlie Hustle guy” you reference. Surely you didn’t make that comment thinking this “Pete Rose” was the same “Pete Rose” of baseball infamy did you?
You are so correct. I simply copied that verse from the text of the article but you are correct. That really needs to be included as far too many people would like to take credit rather than understand it is the faith of Christ. Thank you for pointing that out.
It was in fact a number 14 reference, as you pointed out. And kudos to you for saying ‘infamy’ in regard to the baseball one.
Rather it’s the more we submit ourselves to Him the more He can work through us.
“Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.” John 6:28-29
From that point on it’s Him working through us. It’s not we who do the works.
I would disagree. The verse in James says nothing about salvation. It simply says that God accepts that kind of religion. Thinking that doing those somehow obtains or deserves salvation is contrary to what scripture teaches.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.