Why Was He Named Jesus and Not Emmanuel?

Archdiocese of Washington ^ | 01-02-17 | Msgr. Charles Pope

[aMorePerfectUnion]

In Revelation, Israel brought forth the Messiah - the Messiah promised to them.

I’d suggest you not start by entering the room holding Mary’s hand.

Just go to the passage. Read the entire section. Ask how it fits in with the preceding and following sections. Ask about all you find.

I know you would like it to be about Mary. Your extensive artwork proves this. Yet it is not about her.

Mary’s roll was to bear and raise Messiah to fulfill God’s promises to Israel. This she fulfilled. We continue to note how blessed she was to be chosen and used in this important roll.

The rest stems from poor hermeneutics and Hopium...

[Luircin]

Yeah no.

There are no capital letters at all in the verse in question in the original Greek manuscripts.

[Luircin]

Random expansion on your topic.

The woman in Revelation is not only Israel but the Church as a whole, because if we stretch all through history, she is one and the same.

[ealgeone]

No it wasn’t. Nor is the way Rome renders it. It’s more made up false teachings from Rome.

[kosciusko51]

Mindreading is not allowed. Why did you say that, instead of giving an answer?

Since you question my motive: I asked why, since it is odd to me that the quote stops in the middle of the verse. And I will ask again, why is not the whole passage used to identify the Woman? And when do/did all these events take place?

[aMorePerfectUnion]

The woman in Revelation is not only Israel but the Church as a whole, because if we stretch all through history, she is one and the same.

I understand this Reformed theological view that makes Israel and the Church into one body.

I do not share it based on what I see in Scripture. I do not see the fulfillment of Israel's promised land boundaries, etc. Nor are the promises to Israel as glorious as what He has promised the Church. It is an interesting discussion, but way off the thread topic.

Happy New Year to you Luircin!

[aMorePerfectUnion]

why is not the whole passage used to identify the Woman?

If you carry Mary into the room, you have to find a place for her to sit! Part of the verse looked like a chair fit for Mary, so...

[Luircin]

Well, I more meant how Paul spoke about us believers being grafted into the vine that is Israel.

And I’m a lot better now than I was over New Years’ let me tell you. Ear infections are no fun, but the good Lord decided to gift us with antibiotics so now I’m starting to feel better.

Hope things are going well over there.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

“Paul spoke about us believers being grafted into the vine that is Israel.

Right on, right on!

Illness: prayers up for you!!

“Hope things are going well over there.

I am so grateful for the blessings of God in our lives.

[Mrs. Don-o]

I am sorry. I thought that when you said the quote was "cut off," you were implying there was some mishandling of the text involved. If that wasn't your intent, then I apologize for the misunderstanding.

I've been shuttling back and forth between the keyboard and the kitchen, which has made my sense of the continuity of the discussion a little choppy.

[kosciusko51]

I understand getting distracted, and I entered the conversation late.

Perhaps when you are less distracted, you could go back to my original post and reread what I pointed out and the questions I asked.

Grace and Peace

[ealgeone]

Watcha cooking tonight?

You ever make mincemeat pies?

[af_vet_1981]

In Revelation, Israel brought forth the Messiah - the Messiah promised to them.

Jacob is a man. God named him Israel. He is a father, not a mother. He has twelve sons. None of them is the Messiah. He is a Patriarch, not a Matriarch.

There is no valid path to bring forth a man child to rule the Gentiles (nations) with a rod of iron and rise up to the throne of God except through the virgin, Miriam/Mary, who belongs to both the nation of Israel and the Church. She is the woman who brings forth Jesus, the man child who will rule the Gentiles with a rod of iron and is caught up to heaven at the right hand of the Father.

Going to the passage, and comparing it with Joseph's dream one can see:
1. Joseph dreamed that the sun, the moon, and eleven stars bowed to him. The text in Genesis interprets the sun as Jacob, the moon as Joseph's mother Rachel, and the eleven stars as Joseph's brothers.
2. In Revelation the wonder in heaven is a woman, not a man. She is clothed by the sun with the moon under her feet. There is a crown of twelve stars in a crown upon her head.
3. The woman, clothed by the sun (Patriarch(s)), and the moon (Matriarch(s)), crowned by the stars (twelve tribes) becomes pregnant and brings forth the Messiah who rises up to the throne of God.
4. The woman cannot be Israel, except through Miriam/Mary, because Israel are the brethren of the Messiah, not the mother of the Messiah.
5. The woman cannot be the Church, except through Miriam/Mary, because the Church is the body of the Messiah, not the mother of the Messiah.

[Zuriel]

**Symbolic of the literal truth expressed in this tagline.**

God is a Spirit. God was IN Christ reconciling the world unto himself. The flesh grew in wisdom and stature. God always knew all things, and never grew, for he is higher than the heavens, lower than the ocean floors.

It’s really a pathetic painting, especially the fanciful appearance of the Son in a young boy’s body, in the mother, as though she has pouch like a kangaroo.

And yes, the big Mary, little Jesus theme is dominant for all to see.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

“Jacob is a man. God named him Israel. He is a father, not a mother. ”

Israel is a nation as well.

Let me know when you outline Revelation and Daniel, verse by verse, paragraph by paragraph, section by section, and you will see more clearly friend.

Consider this a great goal for your new year.

Also, I note you take figurative language literally. A bad hermeneutic amigo.

Happy New Year!

[Zuriel]

**And because Jesus, on His cross, gave his mother a son (John)(representing the faithful -— all the others had fled) and gave His faithful -— His Church -— a Mother.**

John never pulled a sword in an effort to stop the arrest. He fled with all the others. Like Peter, he then followed at a distance, but did not speak up or attempt to intervene at any time: not at the home of the high priest, not at Pilate’s hall, not while Herod’s men mocked the Lord, not back at Pilate’s hall when Barabbas was freed, not when the cross was being borne, not when the nails were being hammered in to the body.

John was not the superior in faith example, before Pentecost, that your doctrine teaches. He was as afraid as the rest when the stormy sea threatened. He didn’t attempt to walk on water.

He didn’t have the power to overcome, until the upper room experience on Pentecost.

[af_vet_1981]

Israel is a nation as well.

I covered that point; Israel, the nation, are the brethren of the Messiah, not the mother of the Messiah. The Messiah has a mother, a woman, the handmaid of the Lord. Her name, blessed for all generations, is Miriam/Mary.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

Again with a literal premise about a figurative description.

Sorry, but it’s back to “study to show yourself approved!”

Start your outlines! You’re 3 days behind already!

[af_vet_1981]

Again with a literal premise about a figurative description.

Do you mean you do not really believe as a literal premise that
1. the man child is the Messiah ?
2. the man child is to rule the nations with a rod of iron ?
3. the man child was caught up to heaven, to God's throne ?

[kosciusko51]

Jeremiah 3:6

The LORD said to me in the days of King Josiah: “Have you seen what she did, that faithless one, Israel, how she went up on every high hill and under every green tree, and there played the whore?