Have We Made a Mess of the Greatest Holy Spirit Movement in History?

Christian Post ^ | 04/09/2018 | Michael Brown

[metmom]

Ping

[metmom]

Never seen the tongues signs and healing people follow the rules laid out in the Bible

Which is why I doubt most of it is from God.

[metmom]

Yes.

But that’s what the enemy does.

[metmom]

The problem is that almost everyone is looking for something other than Christ.

They want the Holy spirit, the gifts, the experience, the prophecy, the word of knowledge, the healing, etc, but very few pursue growing in Godliness and Christlikeness.

HIMSELF
by A. B. Simpson
Once it was the blessing, Now it is the Lord;
Once it was the feeling, Now it is His Word.
Once His gifts I wanted, Now the Giver own;
Once I sought for healing, Now Himself alone.

Once ‘twas painful trying, Now ‘tis perfect trust;
Once a half salvation, Now the uttermost.
Once ‘twas ceaseless holding, Now He holds me fast;
Once ‘twas constant drifting, Now my anchor’s cast.

Once ‘twas busy planning, Now ‘tis trustful prayer;
Once ‘twas anxious caring, Now He has the care.
Once ‘twas what I wanted, Now what Jesus says;
Once ‘twas constant asking, Now ‘tis ceaseless praise.

Once it was my working, His it hence shall be;
Once I tried to use Him, Now He uses me.
Once the power I wanted, Now the Mighty One;
Once for self I labored, Now for Him alone.

Once I hoped in Jesus, Now I know He’s mine;
Once my lamps were dying, Now they brightly shine.
Once for death I waited, Now His coming hail;
And my hopes are anchored, Safe within the vail.

[Iscool]

Revelation was the last book to be accepted into the Christian biblical canon, and even at the present day some Nestorian churches reject it. It was tainted because the heretical sect of the Montanists relied on it and doubts were raised over its Jewishness and authorship, and it was not until 419 that it was included in the canon.

You guys are too funny...

Revelation was the last book to be accepted into the Catholic biblical canon

If you had known what you were talking about that is what you would have written...The Christian scriptures were in circulation for 3 Centuries, 300 years before your religion wrote it's own version...

[Elsie]

The Charismatic-Pentecostal movement finds itself at a critical juncture. On the one hand, our movement is arguably responsible for the greatest ingathering souls in Church history, with well over 500 million new converts in the last 50 years. On the other hand, abuses abound in our midst, from sexual scandals to financial impropriety and from unaccountable prophecies to doctrinal deviances.

Wasn't this very same thing written about 1600 AD?

About Catholicism??

[MHGinTN]

Ecumenism is so enticing ... and demonic.

[boatbums]

Unfortunately, gullible people are nothing new. Before the health/wealth/prosperity gospel preachers there were relic and pilgrimage people. Even in the first century, the Apostles had to deal with such as Simon Magus:

Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John: who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost: (for as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.) Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost. And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money, saying, "Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost." But Peter said unto him, "Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money. Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God. Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee, for I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity." Then answered Simon, and said, "Pray ye to the Lord for me, that none of these things which ye have spoken come upon me." — Acts 8:9–24

Nothing new under the sun.

[boatbums]

Beautiful!

[Prov1322]

Your opinion?

I agree with Michael Brown on this.

From Day 1 of being Born-from-Above we have been fully engaged with the Full Gospel. We have benefitted eternally from teachers/preachers who are regularly trashed here on FR. I made a decision at some point in time to not engage in these "discussions" on FR.

I have made it a point to ignore those on FR who gratuitously dismiss and denigrate the men and women of GOD who have blessed us and fed our growth in The LORD over these decades.

That said, there are those who abuse the message of Good News and they do not honor The LORD nor build His Kingdom.

I am eternally grateful that I am Born-from Above and that our new birth initiated in a Full Gospel/Pentecostal/Charismatic Fellowship AND that we continue to minister in and speak into the lives of those in (and outside of...) that Life-giving stream.

[21twelve]

I thought it pretty funny that an article decrying the current state of the church and wanting to remedy things has that advertisement stuck in the middle of the article.

“MIRACLE MONEY is coming, discover WHEN now! PROFITABLE CONNECTIONS are yours, discover WHO now! GOLDEN OPPORTUNITIES will be found, discover WHERE now!”

[21twelve]

Oh shoot - I had just been skimming - now I realize that advertisement IS what the author is decrying. Sorry!!

[Bookshelf]

Ravings of a madman, yes. But John’s Revelations were not accepted for 350 years after they were put to paper. That would be like something written in New England in 1670 inally being accepted as truth today. My question to you is this: Given the Syrian Orthodox Church does not accept the Revelations is it truly Christian?

[Bookshelf]

Do you accept the primacy of the Nicene Creed?. Shouldn’t the Nag Hammadi papers be included in the Bible? If not, why not? At least, shouldn’t the Gospel of Thomas be included? Why do many Bibles include the Apocrypha?

[metmom]

That’s fine.

[delchiante]

[Quote-doubts were raised over its Jewishness and authorship]

Not sure if the point is that it is too Jewish or not Jewish enough.

[daniel1212]

It is my belief that when the Church fathers decided to include the Revelations chapter in the Bible (and it apparently was a toss-up) it was a major mistake. I would ask with respect to divine revelation, what difference is there between the dreams of Mohammed and the Dreams of John?

A major mistake?! That is absurd, as is the premise of a lack of difference between the dreams of Mohammed and the Dreams of John.

For the contrasts are multiple:

1. John vs. Muhammad. John is the apostle of love, mentioning it over 70 times in the gospel of John and 1 John and Revelation combined, in contrast to the Qur'an, where it is hardly mentioned if at all. 2. The Christ of John and Revelation, who is "the almighty," (Rv. 1:8) whom all creation will worship along with the Father. (Rv. 5:13-14) Who was dead; and, behold, is alive for evermore, (Revelation 1:18) who "wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;" (Revelation 5:9) who "loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood" (Revelation 1:5)

In stark contrast to the christ of the madman Muhammad, who reduced Christ to being a mere exalted perfect man, who did not die for our sins and rise, and who is not to be worshiped.

3. The mean of warfare John and Revelation: While Revelation 13:10) warns, "He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints," (Revelation 13:10) which is consistent with, J"My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence;". (John 18:36) The only warfare of the saints for the kingdom of God will be supernatural. (Revelation 19:14,15)

In stark contrast Muhammad the mad-man engaged in physical bloodly warfare and captivity as the head of a physical theocracy, and his postMedinic exhorts religious violence.

Need i go on?

[Bellflower]

I strongly believe in the gifts of The Holy Spirit for today, but long ago left the Charismatic-Pentecostal movement. First of all, I believe in eternal security. Without understanding that you are eternally secured by Jesus blood shed for you, you have to run on emotion and your own do goodness. You haven’t an anchor.

Emotionalism and lack of grounding leads to a big gap, which becomes filled in with all kinds of hyped up and emotionally driven false spirituality, demons. It’s just the way it is.

I am waiting for a good, decent Church that isn’t full of false spirituality, the false spirit of entertainment and yet believes in eternal security and the gifts of The Holy Spirit for today. God’s people need to wait on Him for what is true and real.

[daniel1212]

Ravings of a madman, yes. But John’s Revelations were not accepted for 350 years after they were put to paper. That would be like something written in New England in 1670 inally being accepted as truth today. My question to you is this: Given the Syrian Orthodox Church does not accept the Revelations is it truly Christian?

What do you mean John’s Revelations were not accepted for 350 years after they were put to paper?

You can only mean that it was not universally accepted as Scripture by all, yet which was also true of some other books even until Trent for RCs, including one of the most manifestly inspired writings, the Book of Hebrews

And whether something is universally accepted or not is not what makes such Scripture, though it establishes it as authoritative among men though who accept it.

And as far as the attestation of churchmen, though lacking some discernment, is concerned, then among others Athanasius (367 AD) in his Letter 39,[33] Augustine of Hippo (c. 397 AD) in his book On Christian Doctrine (Book II, Chapter 8),[34] Tyrannius Rufinus (c. 400 AD) in his Commentary on the Apostles' Creed,[35] Pope Innocent I (405 AD) in a letter to the bishop of Toulouse[36] and John of Damascus (about 730 AD) in his work An Exposition of the Orthodox Faith (Book IV:7)[37] listed "the Revelation of John the Evangelist" as a canonical book. - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Revelation#Canonical_history

[Mark17]

Too much holy laughter going on out there. 😁