Posted on 04/14/2018 11:42:11 AM PDT by pcottraux
At 5 I wanted to be a man after God’s own heart. At 16 I was debating with theologians. At 19 I was attending pastoral conferences by special invitation. At 24 I was being groomed for seminary.
I never went. I saw too much of this. The longer I live, the less I care about theology.
The Apostles were not theologians. They knew Jesus Christ and the Word of God.
So much of this is based in vanity and hubris, and goes beyond what God has declared.
“I am not very interested in what Man has to say about God; I am much more interested in what God has to say about Man.” - Daniel Lapin (sadly, not spoken by a Christian theologian)
“Theology is theory, not truth: the danger of seeing through a glass darkly.” - YogicCowboy
Agreed. I came to view it as a fruitless exercise with overly intellectual Christians just as much or more.
I actually started playing dumb with such, letting them think I was stupid or ignorant. I found the oneupmanship with God’s Word repulsive.
In my opinion, no theology fosters this kind of overweening pride more than Calvinism (Reformed). I am not here denouncing the actual theology, but the intellectual pride behind it.
Ping!
In my opinion, no theology fosters this kind of overweening pride more than Calvinism (Reformed). I am not here denouncing the actual theology, but the intellectual pride behind it.
Well as a Pentecostal, I'm Arminian...and I agree with you that many Calivinists I've met have that terrible spirit of pride. That said, I've also had to pray for God to help me forgive many baptist believers from the past, especially family members and schoolmates. I don't want to fall into the same trap myself.
I think in the arena of "debates" many Christians lose their way. It becomes less about winning souls and preaching the gospel and more about "winning an argument." Like you said, theological tennis. Whoever can one-up each other with the right amount of scriptures, as if more scriptures supporting one doctrine makes it true. It's all about flesh and pride and the thrill of victory. Whether it's with atheists or other Christians, I'm just not interested in taking part. I write my blogs so people can see for themselves what I have to say and can decide whether or not I make a persuasive point.
Most of the time people do not believe the Gospel because of issues of morality and character rather than logic, reason, or evidence.
I think this hits the nail on the head, but atheists obviously don't see it that way. To listen to them it's about "defeating Christianity," which is holding mankind back from a "scientific utopia."
Say what you will about Nietsche, at least he was one of the few who was brutally honest about it. Admitting that he rejected Christianity out of preference, not any persuasive argument.
Thank you. :)
I know some women who sent in their *seed money* with the expectation that they would get 1,000 fold in return and were puzzled as to why it didn’t happen.
I commend your intentions.
I remember once during a Scriptural debate I had with my head pastor, he interrupted our interchange to exclaim, “Face it, you’re hooked! You love it!”
He meant that I was hooked on debating Scripture, and on trying to win arguments. He and others were trying to get me to go to Seminary.
He was wrong, and I left that meeting very disheartened that he did not understand me. All I cared about was arriving at the truth of any matter, whether I was right or wrong.
Valid point.
I would expect giving to certain ones would bring divine chastening rather than divine blessings. I’ve always found it interesting that the ones claiming that giving will result in getting, always tell people to give to them. Not their local church. Not poor missionaries doing slave labor for the Lord at slave wages. No, “give to me so I can fly on a private jet and wear designer suits.”
In both the Old and New Testament, promoting the idea that the gift of God can be bought with money resulted in severe discipline and reproof. It happened to Elisha’s servant, Gehazi (2 Kings 5:27), and it happened to Simon the sorcerer (Acts 8:20).
“atheists obviously don’t see it that way... Nietsche... [admitted] that he rejected Christianity out of preference, not any persuasive argument.”
You’re right. While it is not stated explicitly in scripture, I reconcile the idea that some are predisposed to unbelief in this manner: those who will not repent, cannot believe.
Jesus taught that recognizing truth hinged upon a willing mind:
John 7:17
If anyone wills to do His will, he shall know concerning the doctrine, whether it is from God or whether I speak on My own authority.
It’s never about *can*.
It’s always about *will*.
People don’t disbelieve because they can’t believe but because they won’t believe.
“People don’t disbelieve because they can’t believe but because they won’t believe.”
I’m sure we agree in principle, but perhaps what people can’t and won’t do are essentially the same.
However, this addresses one of the many “hard sayings” of scripture:
John 12:39-40
Therefore they could not believe, because Isaiah said again:
“He has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts,
Lest they should see with their eyes,
Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn,
So that I should heal them.”
The passage plainly says they “could not believe.” But my point is that the reason still lies within their own volition.
That is, God does not ordain or predestine anyone to destruction. Predestination for eternal life is because of God’s will. We set aside our own will and accept His will in its place. And we find that His will is better for us than our own.
People go to hell because of doing their own will. Obviously no one WANTS to suffer the pain of eternal judgment, but it is nevertheless the clinging to one’s own will that leads that person to destruction.
According to this passage, unbelief is the consequence of God hiding something from people. A person might even want to believe but find they can not convince themselves because they have never experienced a divine miracle or seen convincing evidence for one. No amount of arguing or persuading can change a person who is in this state. And if we could produce evidence or perform a miracle, they would simply be unable to see the reality of it anyway.
Jesus even taught that some would not believe though someone were raised from the dead. See Luke 16:31.
The distinction I draw is between wanting to believe and being willing to repent. There is a subtle but fundamental difference.
I see your point, but I cannot fathom that if someone wanted to believe, that A) God would not grant that to him, and that B0 Someone would even have the capacity to want to believe if it weren’t for God drawing him in the first place.
So to me, the fact that someone wants to believe is an indicator that God is actively working in that person’s life to draw him to Himself.
It makes no sense to say that someone wants to believe but can’t because God didn’t enable him. That would be like God drawing him and then saying *No*.
That does not fit with the character of love.
Few take this road. Most people believe what they are told and will go to great length to defend it, right or wrong. Some can be very glad they were told the truth, others not so much.
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