Posted on 10/10/2018 1:31:10 PM PDT by ebb tide
Unfortunately, many council fathers broke their oaths. However, some few Catholic clergy held to their oath. And thanks to them we still have the TLM. I thinks it's hilarious that Bergoglio is now calling for Catholics to pray (but only for the month of October) St. Michael's prayer, the same prayer that was stripped from the Novus Ordo.
I also find it hilarious that the same duplicitous man who disparaged Catholics who had presented him with a rosary bouquet by saying, "An anecdote, just to illustrate this, it is not to laugh at it, I took it with respect, but it concerns me; when I was elected, I received a letter from one of these groups, and they said: "Your Holiness, we offer you this spiritual treasure: 3,525 rosaries." Why don't they say, 'we pray for you, we ask...', but this thing of counting... And these groups return to practices and to disciplines that I lived through - not you, because you are not old - to disciplines, to things that in that moment took place, but not now, they do not exist today..." is now asking Catholics to pray the rosary for him because he is being "attacked by the devil, the Great Accuser, Archbishop Vigano.
That is how much this post-conciliar man hates Catholic tradition and even the Faith.
What kind of Catholic Pope would be "concerned" about a rosary bouquet that was offered to him? And then turns around and asks for them when he's caught red-handed covering up for homosexuals?
And the rot was a few decades older than him ... and neither he nor his successors moved effectively against it. They allowed it to fester, until it exploded in the 1960s.
We must learn from this period in our history, not just pretend it was all sweetness and light.
Things will never be all sweetness and light until the Consecration of Russia. But things were a lot sweeter before VCII than then they are now.
No pre-conciliar pope ever set foot in a mosque or a synagogue. No pre-concilar pope universally suppressed the Mass codified by St. Pius V and imposed what Cardianl Ratzinger called, “a banal on-the-spot product”. No pre-concilar pope ever worshipped together with non-Catholics or held Assisi love feasts. No preconcilar popes ever called for Synods to discuss (and later approve) Holy Communion for those in mortal sin. No pre=concilar popes called for synods to consider pre-marital sex, cohabitation, homosexual sex, etc.
As a matter a fact, thanks to VC II, things went from semi-sweet to downright sour.
I'll point out that at NO time in this conversation have I ever said or implied that this present (post V-2) darkness is anything other than darkness. I am highlighting the fact that this darkness grew, gathered strength, festered and suppurated, in the Church before V-2. I am highlighting the fact that the men who devised and promoted this darkness were educated, formed, ordained, and consecrated by the Church before V-2. Insofar as "Traditional Catholicism" and "the Church before V-2" are synonymous, "Traditional Catholicism" must bear some significant blame for allowing this present darkness to happen. Vatican II did not occur in a vacuum.
Finally, I am calling folks to recognize that if we are to dispel this present darkness, we must do more than just return to "Traditional Catholicism". We must also do what "Traditional Catholicism" failed to do in the XIX and XX Centuries. We must take effective steps to identify and expel the sodomites, heretics, and infidels who endeavor to turn Jesus Christ's Church (and ours, for per St. Paul we are the "Body of Christ") into a hellhole.
I'm quite familar with the prayer, thank-you. I recite it after every rosary I pray and after every Low Mass I attend.
But it appears you are not familiar with the promises of Our Lady of Fatima:
If my requests are heeded, Russia will be converted, and there will be peace. If not, she will spread her errors throughout the world, causing wars and persecutions of the Church. The good will be martyred, the Holy Father will have much to suffer, and various nations will be annihilated. In the end, my Immaculate Heart will triumph. The Holy Father will consecrate Russia to me, and she will be converted, and a period of peace will be granted to the world.”
FYI, Russia introduced legalized abortion and since then it has spread worldwide and continues this very day. Over a billion human babies have been murdered in what is supposed to be the safety of their mothers' wombs. You may think that the Consecraton has occurred when JP II consecrated the world, not Russia; but I don't think the Blessed Mother would call a period where over a billion babies have been murdered a "period of peace".
You seem to be deliberately avoiding the elephant in the room, Modernism. Will you not admit that modernists hijacked the Council, and now the Church?
Well, I wish you luck in dispelling homosexuality which has continued since Sodom and Gomorrah to the present day.
I think you'll have a much luck as Francis in dispelling poverty, even though Jesus Christ said the poor will always be with us.
The pre-concilar Church prominently condemned homosexual activity; Francischurch is not!
Modernism
Shrug. Priests and bishops were educated and formed in "Traditional Catholicism", swore an oath against modernism ... and then proceeded to engage in sodomy, heresy, and infidelity. Then they went to Vatican II with malice aforethought ... that council wasn't hijacked, it was a disaster from the beginning.
Sodomy is a sin. Poverty is not. Sodomites is Roman Collars can be identified and defenestrated. "Traditional Catholicism" failed to do this in the XIX and XX Centuries. We must do better in the future. The "Traditional Catholicism" of Pius V (which you have referenced) is a better model than the "Traditional Catholicism" of the XIX and XX Centuries, which was an abject failure.
And yet like poverty, sin will always be with us. That's why Christ instituted the Sacrament of Confession; it wasn't on a temporary basis.
And now, we have a post-conciliar pope who says one does not even need to vocalize his sins in the confessional, if he's too embarresed, to be absolved.
No pre-conciliar pope ever proposed such a thing.
I'll be the first to admit, and also regret, that fact.
Do you know what? Our Lady asked for the Consecration of Russia be performed by 1960. It was never done. And guess what? John XXIII called for a council in 1959, and said council opened in 1962.
If Pope Pius XI had made the consecration of Russia in union with all the bishops of the Church, the following things would have resulted:
Pope Pius XI failed to make the consecration of Russia as requested by Our Lady. Great suffering resulted from this, for the world and for the Church. Sister Lucia said Our Lord spoke to her in an intimate communication, saying “They did not wish to heed my request…they will repent and do it, but it will be late. Russia will already have spread her errors throughout the world, provoking wars and the persecution of the Church; the Holy Father will have much to suffer.” The consecration would be made, eventually, but it would be too late to prevent the evils foretold by Our Lady if the consecration was not made in time.
Vatican II did not happen in a vacuum.
Learn from history, or be doomed to repeat it.
FOUR successive "Traditional Catholic" popes failed to do it. Like I've been saying: Learn from the past. Don't repeat the errors of the past.
Will you answer this simple question?
Will the Catholic Church be better off if it returns to Traditional Catholicism and the Traditional Latin Mass?
Yes or No?
No kidding? I just explained that to you.
And I wish you could see, and admit, the consequences of their failures as promised by Our Lady.
She said, "The good will be martyred...". Since then a million human babies have been murdered. But you claimed Her promise was "irrelevant".
Restoring the use of a specific liturgical language, returning to the sacramental and liturgical forms (not just the Mass, but the other sacraments and hourly prayers as well) of 1960 may well be a necessary condition to restoring the Church. It is not a sufficient condition. Returning to the "status quo ante" Vatican II will put us back in the condition that created Vatican II. WE NEED TO CLEAN UP OUR ACT in a whole host of ways. Doing a better job of identifying and removing sodomites, heretics, and infidels from among the clergy and religious IS ABSLOUTELY a necessary condition for restoration of the Church ... and a far more important one than liturgical forms.
The "new Mass" and the revolutionary chaos that accompanied it did not cause our problems. Quite the contrary: our problems, of sodomy, heresy, and infidelity caused the "new Mass" and the revolutionary chaos that accompanied it. You have the cart before the horse.
I realize that this is a difficult truth for many "Traditionalists" to accept.
Try listening for a change.
Are going to stalk me on every thread I post?
Bugnini was a traditional Catholic.
Kasper was a traditional Catholic.
Marx was a traditional Catholic.
Carlo Maria Martini was a traditional Catholic.
Montini was a traditional Catholic.
McCarrick was a traditional Catholic.
Wuerl was a traditional Catholic.
And you know what? They were all Modernists.
It's not all about you.
Really ...
And Reinhard Marx was 12 years old when V-2 concluded.
And I find it ironic (and mildly amusing) that "V-2" has a meaning quite aside from anything going on in the Church.
Listen to whom?
Pope St Pius X?
Or the likes of you, Jorge Bergoglio, Blase Cupich, Joseph Tobin, Donna Wuerl, et al?
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.