Posted on 01/10/2019 8:11:47 AM PST by SeekAndFind
OK, I saw it. And?
:o)
Thank you for your thoughtful reply and different perspective.
Great!
Now bring on thy neighbor’s wife - she’s hot!
And I don’t have to honor my transgender mother/father any more.
Shem, Ham, Japheth had taken their wives.
The Chinese word(Mandarin according to the Missionary I heard it from) for boat is a symbol of a boat with 8 tiny people or heads. For Directional “West” it was a symbol depicting a garden with a man and woman.(Eden would have been west of China. The missionary who had been speaking said that the Chinese language is full of these little tidbits that relate back to early old testament truths!
Don’t know how it relates to your posting but I thought it was fascinating just the same. I must be having a “Bipolar Mike” moment!
cheers!
“All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”
There were two tablets. The first one had four commandments - on how we were to relate to God (so Jesus’ “first” commandment).
The second tablet had six commandments on how to relate to other people.
We had a sermon series on the commandments. It was REALLY eye-opening that our pastor presented them not as “rules” - but as an operating manual.
God created the world and other people. And it was made for a certain purpose, and in a certain way. The Ten Commandments are sort of an operating manual so that we can follow the instructions of the world that God created so that we can operate in the best possible way.
To Delchiante: Paul says Christ was the chief priest after the order of Melchizidek(whom Abraham also knew and brought gifts to). This Melchizedek priest redeemed and saved the prostitute and told her “Sin no more”.
By your words, your Jesus seems to be chief priest after the order of Aaron. Aaron would have stoned the prostitute.
Hence you have the Law which arouses the consciousness of sin and the two approaches to the law....condemnation and punishment; eternal separation from God vs redemption and cleansing of sin:the restoration of fellowship with God.
Hebrews chapters 6-12 explains the contrasts between the old and new covenants very well including the contrasting of Spiritual Mount Sinai with that of spiritual Mount Zion.
I think you are on very dangerous ground in casting Paul as preaching Antichrist!
I'm not saying that. It's a strawman you created..which I see you're about to demolish...
By the way, this means that not just the ten commandments are to be internalized, but all the Old Covenant: food laws, stoning sabbath breakers, Levitical priesthood, all of it. Send me a picture of your stoning a sabbath-breaker and I’ll know you believe this argument enough to obey it.
Actually my friend the book of Hebrews spells out pretty clearly what has changed between the old covenant and the new covenant. That's why it was written. What's changed are the "ordinances of services"...i.e. the Levitical priesthood and any functions related to the Levitical priesthood. Hebrews also spells out that the sacrifice of Christ obviated the need for animal sacrifices. There's another category of laws and ordinances that appear in the old testament and those are the civil and criminal laws and punishments that are only valid and applied to the ancient nation of Israel.
However the ten commandments don't fall into any of those categories. They are God's laws. They don't need and don't specify that any type of Levitical priesthood is needed to observe them.
It's actually the same with the food laws AND the other holy days of the Lord Jesus Christ that are listed in the bible in Leviticus 23. These days do not need a Levitical priesthood to observe them. The sacrifices in the them have been obviated by the sacrifice of Christ but the days are still there. And there is no where in the new testament where Christ makes them disappear.
Your first statement isn't accurate. There was no observation of Sunday as a day of worship OR as a replacement for the sabbath of Jesus Christ by Christians in the bible.
What you're looking at is taking some verses out of context and looking at them through a prism Sunday worship.
The biblical evidence is that the sabbath day of the Lord was observed. In the scenario that you're postulating the holiness of the sabbath day apparently disappeared without a hint of controversy. Remember, this is the same days that Christ CREATED as holy in Genesis chapter 2. It's the same day that Christ enshrined in the ten commandments. It's the same sabbath day that Jesus claimed he was the Lord of in three of the gospels. Yet nobody ever accused any biblical Christian of CHANGING the sabbath to a different day OR even attempting to. This would have been a MUCH bigger issue to the jews that opposed Paul then circumcision was and there is ample evidence that the circumcision issue was a huge controversy.
“My own position is that science still has some catching up to do, as it is not yet advanced enough to understand that the Bible is correct.”
I laughed out loud at your statement...I can just see the puckered persimmoned faces of the scientists and writers of the various organizations and magazines should they ever encounter a scientist of great intellect and accomplishment who says such a thing to their faces. Oh the consternation and the threats such a statement would engender from such a group which would then be profusely showered upon such an “ignorant upstart”. I admit to a bit of fantasy dreaming that such an individual would simply shrug his shoulders, shake the dust off of his shoes, then step onto his self invented antigravity disc and fly off! Yet in reality, he’d probably be publicly hounded out of all scientific organizations and have various grants and honors stripped from him.
Jesus answered the question; Love the Lord your God with all your heart, your mind, and your strength, and a second commandment I give you, love your neighbor as yourself. All the commandments will then be honored when we do these two.(my paraphrasing)
He also said; Those who love me follow my commands.
The Ten Commandments are a pattern seen when we intensely love God, and truly selflessly love all others.
Love God; don’t use his name in vain, don’t worship false gods, keep the Sabbath holy. Love others; respect your parents, don’t murder, don’t steal anyone’s property or wife, don’t lie, don’t fool around on your spouse, and stop yearning for other people’s stuff or wife.
“This would have been a MUCH bigger issue to the jews that opposed Paul then circumcision was and there is ample evidence that the circumcision issue was a huge controversy. “
The church fathers of Paul’s day(after Paul upbraided them) decided that the gentile Christians weren’t bound to be circumsized, only that they should abstain from fornication and to not eat what was offered to idols. Not one mention as to the celebration of the Sabbath or the keeping of various feast days. Paul also spoke of those who “esteemed one day as Holy vs another who might esteem another day” and that “let each be fully persuaded in their own minds”. Apparently some folks even then may have been choosing a different day for their feasts and sabbaths and Paul was trying to get people to not get bogged down in disagreements over custom and then lose sight of Christ.
“Andy Stanley says Ten Commandments don’t apply to Christians.”
Nine of ‘em do, but not for salvation.
Every CoC member knows that the "Ten Commandments" don't apply under the "new testament!"
Which is clearly heretical. While Christians are "no longer under the law" as regards its means of salvation, that of perfect obedience, which worked to show man he needed mercy and grace, fo,
For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. (Galatians 3:10. KJV)
Nor is the law the standard for righteousness, which is Christ, yet far from the 10 commandments and "any of the commandments found in the first part of their Bibles" not being and "something that actually applies to us," and that instead, obeying as "I have loved you, so you must love one another," one cannot do the latter, one cannot follow the Lord Jesus, without keeping the law as applied under the promised New Covenant.
In which,
For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. (Romans 8:3-4. KJV)
Which means one must know what the law commands, and keep its intent, which usually means keeping the letter of it, so that "thou shalt not steal" means do not steal, including taking credit for something someone else did, but can allow stealing in a war, in fulfilling the intent of the law, to save lives of the innocent.
Contrary to atheism which professes the "golden rule," you cannot "do unto others as you would have them to do you" without a moral foundation that teaches just how you should want others to do unto you. We can ask ourselves "what would Jesus do," but which requires understanding the law and keeping it as He did in its full intent, as exhorted under the New Covenant.
Those whose lives are characterized by overall doing so - and by contrite repentance when they realize they have not as per Romans 8:3-4 - testify that they are in the faith, and thus in the light of evidential faith we have the promise,
For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. (Romans 2:13. KJV) For while salvation is by faith, judgment is based upon the evidence of what one believed. (Mt. 25:32-40; 2Co. 3:8ff)
The Lord Himself invokes the OT in providing the prophetic and doctrinal foundation for the NT church, and thus how can it be irrelevant to Christians? Faced with the specious apologetic of prohomosexuals, that "Jesus said nothing about homosexuals," we can point them to Matthew 19:1-6, but which itself is based upon Genesis 2, that of the martial union male and female being the only sexual union sanctioned by God, and which in turn thus defines fornication, which the Lord condemned. (Mark. 7:22)
But how so we best understand "from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: All these evil things come from within, and defile the man'' (Mark 7:21-23. KJV) apart from the OT?
The covenantal distinction for the Christian is recognizing in what way the promised (Jer. 31:31-34) "new covenant" teaches that it is "not according to the covenant" God made under Moses, in which the literal observance of typological laws is abrogated (but not their holy intent),
Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation. (Hebrews 9:10. KJV)
Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. (Colossians 2:14-17. KJV)
Thus the class of abrogated ordinances, which includes ceremonial holy days as the 7th day sabbath, are defined, yet the principal remains, so that while the abrogation of the dietary laws meant Peter could eat with (and what) the Gentiles ate, the OT principle of clean vs. unclean, and of separation btwn the two is upheld and magnified in applying morally and spiritually. Wherefore we have such commands as 2 Corinthians 6:14-18, but which are to be fully understood with light from the OT. Likewise the beatitudes.
In conclusion, under grace we are to walk so that "the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit," (Romans 8:4. KJV) which means understanding and keeping the law in its full intent, which usually means according to the letter of it as well. "Thou shalt not commit adultery" means that both physically and spiritually.
Setting the bar “higher” than the ten commandments did not DISMISS the ten commandments.
A modern day Marcionite. This heresy was completely refuted long ago.
Well; since the record of the Old Testament shows they were a Contract with the Chosen People; and the RULES the CHURCH sent out in ACTS chapter 15 are DIFFERENT...
I'll let logic apply in this instance.
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