Posted on 11/20/2020 7:03:19 AM PST by SeekAndFind
***mormon country- they have some mandate that they must be charitable from what i understand?***
Sure wasn’t a charitable mandate when, at Mountain Meadows, they wiped out the Fancher wagon train, and attacked the Shepherd and Miltmore wagon trains. Fancher, back in his day, used to own about 200 acres near here.
“Vengeance is mine and I have taken a little.”
—Brigham Young
Yep they were brutal- times were brutal then too- but that was no excuse- today’s mormons i guess htink they can rise htrough the ranks by ‘being kind’ - they i think have to do a year or so of ‘good deeds’ or something?
I’m not too familar with their religion- it was just kinda unexpected the ‘hospitality’ i received back then- but i didn’t know about them and mandate either-
Tax loophole? You gotta stop beating the dead horse - it’s not getting up.
The US tax code allows a deduction for charitable donations just as it does for depreciation, purchased equipment, and staff salaries. But that is independent of why Latter-day Saints give tithes.
We don’t give tithes to get a tax deduction, we give tithes because God commanded us to do so (Malachi 3:8-11). It’s nice that we get a little back as a tax deduction, but even if we didn’t, we will still tithe.
Now, you are certainly free to disobey God, but it is disingenuous to claim our charitable donations are somehow inferior to the charitable donations of others. At least with us, no one knows how much we give - you don’t see our names on plaques on walls.
One of the stupidest things I hear from critics of our church is the claim that ex-members left because the church threatened them for not giving tithes. It is blatantly false and anyone who belongs to the church knows it is untrue. I was never threatened when I didn’t give a cent for years and don’t know of anyone who has.
That’s the author’s attitude.
Mine is the opposite - I raise my hands in joy when I give my tithes. We are supposed to give without begrudging. I am happy to see the funds leave my bank account.
God has given me so much and I am so grateful for so many things. He asks us to give tithes and I’m happy to do so. He has given us promises that if we give tithes, he will open up the windows of heaven and pour out a blessing upon us that is so enormous that we can’t contain it all.
I know God keeps his word for he has blessed me immensely for my obedience.
Again, AMPU, you gotta stop bearing false witness against your neighbor. What kind of “Christian” are you to insist on lying about others?
What I said is 100% true - the only time going to the temple directly impacts our ability to become one with God and share in his nature is the FIRST time we go. That is when the ordinances apply to ourselves. That is all that is needed to allow us to dwell in the Celestial Kingdom with Heavenly Father.
Every subsequent visit is solely due to CHARITY towards those who are unable to be born of water and of the spirit.
The door to exaltation is already opened to us when we received our own ordinances. That door doesn’t become more open whenever we go to the temple afterward.
What you’ve done is engage in the logical fallacy of a Non Sequitur, where the conclusion does not follow the propositions you laid out.
Here’s the proof:
PPROPOSITIONS:
• The basis of being admitted to the temple is a temple recommend from a mormonic bishop.
• To get a temple recommend from a bishop is based a mormon must answer the temple recommend questions affirmatively.
• Question 13 is : “Are you a full-tithe payer?”
• A mormon will fail to get a temple recommend if he cannot answer that he is a full (10%) tithe payer - as well as answering the other questions correctly.
The ideas are correct despite the abusive language.
CONCLUSION
▲ Only those mormons who make it to the celestial kingdom will live in the Father’s presence (of course it is non-biblical, but we are talking about mormonic doctrines)
“The celestial kingdom is the highest of the three degrees or kingdoms of glory in heaven. Those who inherit this kingdom dwell in the presence of Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ. In the scriptures, the glory of the celestial kingdom is compared to the glory of the sun.”
- from the official mormon website.
The core idea is correct BUT it is NOT a conclusion from the propositions. There is no relation to them just as concluding that SpaceX launched astronauts to the Internation Space Station is true, but pairing it with the above propositions is a logical fallacy.
Nice try. Do better.
It doesn’t matter what others say, I’m giving direct, personal experience, and my church is very clear that it is voluntary.
Here’s a copy of our General Handbook that our leaders follow:
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/general-handbook?lang=eng
Where does it say tithing is compulsory?
Lookit, when you want to know what someone believes - ASK THEM! And when a Latter-day Saint who knows his own religion says something is false and provides proof from his own church’s website supporting his stance, honest people would believe him instead of outsiders with a bias against them.
Considering most of humanity is dead and have never had a chance to be born of water and of the spirit, if Christ is NOT a liar, then the vast majority of humanity can never be saved.
What kind of God will punish those who never had a chance to obey him?
We give them that chance. We use our bodies to have the dead get born again. If they accept Christ in the afterlife, then they will accept the work we do for them. If they reject it, no harm no foul - they will not be saved.
If you think this ultimate form of charity means we’re a “cult” (whatever that means), then that uncharitable attitude will condemn you when you stand before our God, Jesus Christ, to be judged.
Please cite the Bible verse for baptism for the dead?
The Book of Mormon has had thousands of changes. Kind of strange for the “the most perfect book ever written.”
You cannot go to the temple a second time, unless you go a first time.
You prove I was correct that being a full-tithe giver is necessary to go to the temple - and consequently, to be in the presence of god.
And for those mormon victims who believe they will become gods, they must be married in the temple.
But that means they must have been a full tithe giver to get that recommend.
Of course, the whole thing is unbiblical bunk.
........
BTW, you can drop all the "lying" "bigot" "false witness stuff".
This is simply an ad hominem fallacy.
Ok, I’ll give you Mountain Meadows - where a band led by a Latter-day Saint attacked a group of migrants who were threatening the Latter-day Saints that they will lead an army to attack them when they reach California.
What else have you got in the 190 years of my church’s history?
I can easily condemn each of the other four branches of Christianity - the Catholics, Protestants, Anglicans, and Eastern Catholics of much worse barbarism in their history.
Heck, is the Thirty Years’ War not taught in schools anymore?
Do you really want to compare the behaviors of churches based on what happened in the distant past? I assure you, your Christian branch will look much worse than mine.
That’s great.
But my point with the article is how pressured the church members are and how they are not permitted to enter the temple if they haven’t met their tithing commitments.
And Mr. Country Club Member of course voluntarily chooses to be a paying member of his social club too.
+1
Now imagine the pressure on cult members.
...with residents there giving the highest share of their income to charity.
Maybe true, but Mormon’s are mandated to give nothing less than 10%. Anything less, and you are a scrub.
We give voluntarily.
Many “charitable” church deductions largely go to fund the facilities and social events around which people organize their lives. That is all fine, but there is no reason such spending should be treated differently—better or worse—than those hosting a weekly dinner for their friends or to keep that ol’ country club open and operating.
That’s all. (And everyone posting here is a taxpayer already perfectly familiar with our tax laws, thank you.)
•* A mormon will fail to get a temple recommend if he cannot answer that he is a full (10%) tithe payer - as well as answering the other questions correctly.***
In the old Temple only the High Priest could enter beyond the veil. When Christ died, that veil was ripped apart showing the way was now open for all by the blood of Jesus. No 10% required.
And after about 40 years (Think Moses and the tribes in the Desert) the Temple was destroyed showing it was no longer needed.
Matthew 27:51
“And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent”
***The Book of Mormon has had thousands of changes.***
Joseph Smith even changed the Bible. But the SLC mormons do not use The Joseph Smith Translation (JST), also called the Inspired Version of the Holy Scriptures (IV), is a revision of the Bible by Joseph Smith...(to conform to his doctrines)
I believe the Reorganized LDS (The Community of Christ) does use it.
So here goes.
Most figures I can find on the 'net say that the percentage of Mormons in Utah are somewhere between 60-70%.
The LDS set of Temple Recommend questions asks:
10 Are you a full-tithe payer?
If you answer this with anything but a 'yes'; you are NOT allowed into the(any) temple until you obey the LDS law about tithing.
"So; big deal", say Mr. Jack Mormon; "I can live without ever going into the temple."
While this is true; there is a tiny GOTCHA! when you croak!
You'll end up in Heaven with Baptists and Catholics and folks like ME!!!
HEAVEN-The Mormon church teaches there are three levels of heaven (three "degrees of glory"):
2 Corinthians 11:18-20 18 Since many are boasting according to the flesh, I too will boast. 19 For you gladly tolerate fools, since you are so wise. 20 In fact, you even put up with anyone who enslaves you or exploits you or takes advantage of you or exalts himself or strikes you in the face.
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