Posted on 10/13/2021 7:02:25 AM PDT by Antoninus
Many of today’s customs, rituals and symbols used in the Catholic Church can be traced back to the 4th century, when Constantine permitted the process of converting the official religion of the Roman Empire from Paganism to Christianity.....they were just rebranded to suit Catholicism teachings.
An example would be statues of The Virgin Mary was (and is still) associated with imagery once associated with the Goddess Isis, whose cult had spread all over the Roman world by the time of early Christianity.
I don't know that Roman pagan priests were known for "elaborate vestments," but I'm sure you'll provide the evidence.
However, the vestments worn by Catholic clergy developed out of the ordinary secular clothes worn by men in the Greco-Roman world. The alb, for example, is a descendant of the toga. The chasuble is a descendant of a kind of jacket, the cope is a descendant of the Roman equivalent of an overcoat, etc.
Well check it’s history.
Is it?
I always think it's a bit odd that people complain about pagan practices (not pagan beliefs) being incorporated into Christianity.
Of course, they're very selective about this. The JWs used to quote a passage from Cdl. Newman about pagan practices incorporated into the Church, but they'd always omit the item about "giving the ring in marriage" ... because they did that one themselves!
Pagan _practices_ are either objectively wrong in themselves (like cult prostitution) or they're objectively good things that belong in the service of the Almighty, but were stolen by pagans. As far as those things are concerned, Christians are absolutely right to steal them back and return them to the original purpose for which God intended them.
Pagan "gods" (really: demons) never created anything good, and we disrespect the True God when we act like they did.
Secularists will come right back at you with the accusation that the story of Jesus is just a corruption of the story of Isis' son Osiris, who died and rose from the dead, etc.
(1) Many, many Christians, including bishops, who had survived persecution under Diocletian, were alive during Constantine's life. None of them took note of this. Why?
(2) Constantine enacted toleration for Christianity. Theodosius the Great, 70 years later, made Christianity the state religion of the Empire. In between fell Julian the Apostate, the subject of this article. Julian (a former Christian!) was completely clear in his mind that he wanted paganism back and Catholicism gone. How does your theory explain this?
There has always been criticism of the ‘magic-like’ qualities of Catholicism, the rituals that clutter up the relationship between the individual and God. Just as there are talks of corruption and money-making that distorts the true and simple meaning of the gospels. ...and it continues today.
Why would it be necessary to quote ancient writers when we have the scriptures and historians well aware of history.
Further I believe the photos...and there are more where the Catholic Church continues to incorporate pagan religions to the catholic church. So it’s very much still evident.
As for the outrages perpetrated in Rome during the pontificate of Francis (who luvs protestants, btw), the fact that actual Catholics had to abscond with the idols and throw them into the Tiber should tell you all you need to know. It also has nothing to do with what we’re talking about here.
You of course can dispense with the customary tactics commonly known and understood when catholics face actual evidence. (Photos) and other evidence from many sources now available on line.
And I don’t buy into the ant-catholic accusations because anyone who doesn’t agree with catholicism is accused of that. It’s just a wrong out tactic.
That doesn’t actually have much to do with church history of the 4th or 5th centuries.
Please explain how photos of an event that happened in 2019 are in any way relevant to a discussion of church history in the 4th century.
other evidence from many sources now available on line.
And where is this "evidence" from many "sources," and what are the credentials of those "sources". Sorry, Alexander Hislop doesn't count as a scholar of church history, the ancient world, or much of anything else.
You ask....”Please explain how photos of an event that happened in 2019 are in any way relevant to a discussion of church history in the 4th century.”.....
Because the article is relating to paganism in reference to christianity. ...which continues to today though rebranded just as they did then. The photos represented as evidence that this is so.....regarding the Pope and the Vatican in where they stand regarding their faith matters.
Further we know catholism has a long tradition of incorporating and adapting different forms of belief and practices from around the world. Often described as “inculturation”.
As to the figurines thrown into the river......Pope Francis apologised on behalf of Rome for the mistreatment of those figurines, which were recovered by police from the Tiber. But you failed to share that significant fact.
The interesting question to me is why Christianity might have become popular among the soldiery. We know other religions that contained an afterlife were also popular, but I tend to think Christianity's assimilation of Stoic notions of self-control, a moral law, and the freedom of an inner life would have made Christianity's moral doctrine more appealing.
“Rituals that clutter up the relationship between the individual and God.”
Wow, you have *no* idea what effects rituals have. And, unfortunately, since your heart is hardened against the Spiritual Bride of Christ, you probably never will.
There are many examples in the Old Testament of rituals by saints: like Abel, Abraham, Moses, Melchisedech, etc. honoring and worshiping God.
But I guess you pay no mind to the OT, let alone the NT.
I’m specifically referring to pagan rituals.
The Lord has shown us what we are to do.....as Christians. Im referring to pagan activity that’s been rebranded to suite a churches teachings...borrowed or copied or included into Christianity.
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