God in the Hands of Angry Sinners

Grace Sermons ^ | R.C. Sproul

[George W. Bush]

bump. Nice post.

[jude24]

One thing Calvinism does is humble you..not puff yourself up

Exactly.

Every Calvinist I know (and I do know several....) makes things 100% clear that they are not elect because of anything whatsoever traceable to ourselves. In fact, it was in spite of everything bad about ourselves.

When a Calvinist talks about election, he's not saying that God chose an elite. "Elite" implies superiority. Rather, HE chose to show mercy upon pathetic sinners.

John 1 talks about the rejection of Jesus Christ by the world. John 1:9 explains that Jesus Christ, coming into the world, lightens every man. But the world did not know him, and even His own people rejected him. But there were a few, all through history, who did receive him. Jn. 1:12 is familiar to us all: "But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name" (John 1:12 NASB).

John 1:13 explains why they are children of God. They were born, "not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God" (Jn 1:13 NASB). Why were there exceptions to the general trend? Not because of their blood: the vast majority of Christ's own countrymen, who prided themselves as Abraham's descendants, rejected Him. Those who embraced him, on the other hand, were Greek, Roman, or Barbarians. So ancestry played no role in who was made a child of God.

THe next two, in my mind, are closely linked. The "will of the flesh" speaks of our old nature (cf. Rom 6, Gal 5, etc.). That's certainly not going to chose to become a son of God. (cf. I Co. 3). But there's that last one: "the will of man." The noun there is andros -- a singular, masculine, genitive. The genitive case is used to show posession -- that it's the will of [a] man. In other words, the man is not a child of God because he chose to be. Rather, he is a child of God because of God.

That, in a nutshell, is total depravity and unconditional election exegeted from John 1.

[RnMomof7]

BUMP

[Hermann the Cherusker]

Mom: God loves everybody. The "hate" towards the reprobate is not some real emotion in God, but both the expression of His just punishments and the situation between reprobate and God put in humanly understandable terms.

Revelation 14:10-11: “[Sinners] shall drink of the wine of the WRATH OF GOD, which is poured without mixture into the cup of HIS INDIGNATION; and he shall be TORMENTED WITH FIRE AND BRIMSTONE IN THE PRESENCE OF THE HOLY ANGELS, AND IN THE PRESENCE OF THE LAMB; And the smoke of their TORMENT ascendeth up for ever and ever; and they have NO REST DAY NOR NIGHT...”

Precisely. The wicked see Love, but they do not participate. Or rather, they participate, but to their eternal torment instead of their eternal bliss. The fires of hell (pain of loss and pain of sense) are the love and glory of God realized in and around those unprepared to receive them and at personal enmity with their source.

Don't be overeager to anthropomorphize God.

Leviticus 26:14-30: and MY SOUL SHALL ABHOR YOU

Does the Holy Trinity have a "soul"?

Hosea 9:15: “All their wickedness is in Gilgal: for there I HATED THEM: for the wickedness of their doings I will drive them out of Mine house, I WILL LOVE THEM NO MORE...”

God is outside time. He does not "change" from loving to hating a person.

Like I said, don't anthropomorphize God.

[Frumanchu]

pony, I know exactly what you mean. I think we do get a bum deal sometimes because we're portrayed as such quite often by our opponents despite not really believing or acting that way. Unfortunately though there are also those Calvinist who do come off that way and even may think that way. Whereas some of us are humbled and awestruck at coming to a deeper understanding of God's sovereignty, others let it go to their head...which is rather ironic because a consistent Calvinist would bear in mind that all good things (including their knowledge/understanding) come from God. There is not one here, Calvinist or otherwise, who is not prone to that temptation.

Anyway, I'm glad to hear that you are enjoying the Reformed reading. If I might make a suggestion, get a hold of Chosen by God by R.C. Sproul. If you have trouble finding it let me know and I'll make sure you get it:)

[Frumanchu]

I deeply respect DrSteve, You, Fru, DrE, Bib Chr....others.

A reciprocal feeling :)

[Frumanchu]

This just in...'all' still means 'all' but 'hate' does not really mean 'hate'

Last I checked we have no need to anthropomorphize God. He did so Himself (John 1:14)

[Catholicguy]

The God that holds yore over the pit of hell, much as one holds a spider; or some loathsome insect, over the fire, abhors you, and is dreadfully provoked: his wrath towards you burns like fire; he looks upon you as worthy of nothing else, but to be cast into the fire; he is of purer eyes than to bear to have you in his sight; you are ten thousand times more abominable in his eyes, than the most hateful venomous serpent is in ours. You have offended him infinitely more than ever a stubborn rebel did his prince; and yet, it is nothing but his hand that holds you from filling into the fire every moment. It is to be ascribed to nothing else, that you did not go to hell the last night; that you were suffered to awake again in this world, after you closed your eyes to sleep. And there is no other reason to be given, why you have not dropped into hell since you arose in the morning, but that God's hand has held you up. There is no other reason to be given why you have not gone to hell, since you have sat here in the house of God, provoking his pure eyes by your sinful wicked manner of attending his solemn worship. Yea, there is nothing else that is to be given as a reason why you do not this very moment drop down into hell.

Too bad Mr. Edwards lived before the advent of Haldol.

[Frumanchu]

Too bad Mr. Edwards lived before the advent of Haldol.

Has it helped you any?

[sitetest]

LOL!

[jude24]

Keep your eyes open... soon there'll be a thread entitled "The Righteousness of God's Election" posted. It's an exegesis of Romans 9 I wrote as a term paper.

I just gotta get through midterms so that I can devote an hour or so getting the pagination to work in HTML... the Greek's gonna be a real pain.

[irishtenor]

Am I an "Other"? I hope so... :>)

[jude24]

And where, precisely, is your disagreement with Mr. Edwards here?

[xzins]

LoL.

Looks like I'm gonna hafta post my whole list of others. I think most of the following list are calvinist, perhaps lacking a petal or 2.

DittoJed2, Drstevej; irishtenor; bib chr; lockeliberty; wrigley;; Sinner; D-fendr; editor-surveyor; Dr. Eckleburg; rwfromkansas; Frumanchu; anniegetyourgun; kjam22; rdb3; vmatt; the_doc; jerry_m; orthodox presbyterian; rnmomof7; matchett-pi; ccwoody; jean chauvin; Happy2BMe;
ksen; nobdysfool; rochesterfan; Dutch-Comfort; Van Jenerette; edreform; pram;

[irishtenor]

Thank you, now, what were we arguing about?

[Gamecock]

Hey Richard, Whazzup?

[xzins]

I don't remember. Wanna make something up?

P-Marlowe's article on God and time is great. Maybe we can get him to post it as a thread.

[irishtenor]

We just had a Sunday School class on God and time. It was AWESOME. Maybe I will print it here.

[Catholicguy]

I had to read it twice before I realised this was serious. This sounds more like the Theology of Screwtape and Wormwood rather than that of a Christian.

If this represents your true idea of God I am surprised you can get out of bed in the morning.

I won't disturb you folks re your ideas of God anymore. Y'all welcome to them. The God described here is a God I am, happily, unfamiliar with.

[OMalley]

***The God that holds yore over the pit of hell, much as one holds a spider; or some loathsome insect, over the fire, abhors you, and is dreadfully provoked: his wrath towards you burns like fire; he looks upon you as worthy of nothing else, but to be cast into the fire***

:(