On abortion, a Jewish compromise

Jerusalem Post ^ | 3.14.04 | IRWIN N. GRAULICH

[ambrose]

Exodus (21: 22-23) states, "If men shall fight, and they collide with a pregnant woman, and she miscarries, but the woman lives, the punishment on the men is financial, as determined by judges. But if the woman dies, there should be capital punishment."

I'm not sure which translation he is using. Here's a Hebrew-to-English translation:

http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/Bible/Exodus21.html

22 And if men strive together, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart, and yet no harm follow, he shall be surely fined, according as the woman's husband shall lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine.

23 But if any harm follow, then thou shalt give life for life,

24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,

25 burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.

[ambrose]

I'd interpret this passage to mean that the guy gets fined if there is a premature birth, and is executed if there's a miscarriage.

[thoughtomator]

The Exodus law was for a people in transit. Once resettled in Israel, the Leviticus law was given, which restates much of the Exodus law but does not include the law given in Exodus 21:22.

In the Leviticus law, there is no crime condemned more thoroughly than child sacrifice.

While there are provisions for abortion in Judaism, these are only for the cases where the mother is at risk of grave injury.

Add the Jerusalem Post authors to the 95%+ of Jews who don't know what the Torah teaches on the matter.

[thoughtomator]

No, Exodus 21:22 means that if the fetus dies, there should be only monetary liability; but if the woman dies, it is capital murder.

[thoughtomator]

See Leviticus 24:20 where the "eye for eye" part is repeated, without any reference to pregnant women.

[ambrose]

Hey, I just found a ready made solution for the pitbull issue in Exodus:

29 But if the ox was wont to gore in time past, and warning hath been given to its owner, and he hath not kept it in, but it hath killed a man or a woman; the ox shall be stoned, and its owner also shall be put to death.

[ambrose]

My vague recollection is that a fetus is viewed under Jewish law as being less than human, but more than just a mere appendage to a woman's body. Something in-between. That's why abortion is permitted to save the life of the mother, but otherwise forbidden.

[ppaul]

How can so many knowledgeable people totally contradict each other?

Because one side is darkness and the other light?
Because the leftists are apostates and reprobates.

[rmlew]

Depending on how you read Genesis 9:6 in the Hebrew, it can be a rule specifically against abortion:
"Whoever sheds the blood of man in man will his blood be shed, for in the image of God made he man."

[DaughterOfAnIwoJimaVet]

Well, I will admit here that I am not opposed to this approach.

Quite an admission, that.

[jocon307]

I have to post again to say I don't think this fellow knows what he's talking about. "There are very few people, if any, who are pro-adultery; yet no one would seriously consider putting a law on the books prohibiting it." There were (and are, I believe) many laws prohibiting adultery. I remember some years ago a woman in Connecticutt trying to get the sheriff to go and arrest her cheating hubby, who was with the ho at the hotel, I don't think the Sheriff would do it. I read this in the NY TIMES for crying out loud. And they quoted some state legistlator who said something like "Of course our anti-adultery statute is old-fashioned and out-of-date, but how can we repeal it? No one want to get up on the floor and speak in favor of adultery!"

File this under: what's wrong is wrong, whether it's illegal or not.

[jocon307]

Yeah, well, it is. But I ain't shot nobody yet, nor do I have plans to do so in the future, but every once in a while you gotta just say what you feel. And this was one of those times.

[goldstategop]

My view is that abortion shouldn't be forbidden but neither should it be encouraged. There are times when a woman will need to have an abortion and other times when its evidently wrong. Judaism doesn't view abortion as murder and neither does it hold it to be a moral good.

[thoughtomator]

I know of nowhere in Jewish law that a fetus is given less value than any other human life. It is only when a choice must be made between two lives, where a woman may kill or have her unborn child killed, as an act of self-defense.

[avital2]

The Exodus reading involves damage to the baby/mother from another. It seems to me an altogether different moral equation when the mother herself intentionally decides to destroy life growing within her. This is a serious moral question, and I would maintain that there are better solutions for dealing with the perceived problem than destroying the life itself. We continue to deal with this problem as if it were happening in the 1970's when this discussion started with Roe. Women have a myriad of ways to avoid pregnancy now that are readily available, and, by the way, having a baby out of wedlock is no longer the social stigma it used to be. Can't we discuss this problem in light of advances rather than the same old rehashed 70's feminist line?

[PGalt]

In all matters of death, who is responsible for the horrific culmination to a series of irrational "choices"?

[AMDG&BVMH]

"Some . . . have even coined the phrase "Silent Holocaust" to describe their horror. "

Well, anyone have an alternative description to the deaths of 40 million preborn since Roe? I'm serious. People use the word Holocaust to signify their horror and the magnitude of abortion. If there is a better way to describe it, I for one am all ears.

[BlessedBeGod]

The fact that there are so few attempts on the lives of abortion doctors proves that the pro-life crowd is intellectually dishonest and does not truly believe its own rhetoric.

Good God! We're not going to lower ourselves to the level of terrorists!

Exodus (21: 22-23) states, "If men shall fight, and they collide with a pregnant woman, and she miscarries, but the woman lives, the punishment on the men is financial, as determined by judges. But if the woman dies, there should be capital punishment."

These verses clearly illustrate that the fetus is not a full life. If it were, capital punishment would be called for, as mentioned in the second sentence.

B.S. That passage is talking about an accident -- not a willful taking of a human life.

Sorry, Bub. Blows your whole argument, doesn't it?