Underwater Arrowheads, Tools Dazzle Maritime Historians (Mi'kmaq - 8,000 YO)

CBC ^ | 2-17-2005

[elli1]

Old Copper Culture artifacts (4000 B.C.-1000 B.C.) Manitoba

Link

Old Copper Culture artifacts have been recovered in Wisconsin as well.

Several 'native american' cultures in central & South America were extremely skilled in metal arts. Here's one example.

[-=Wing_0_Walker=-]

First I would envy the collection any one of the RCMP has now. Second, no ray guns?

[Cowman]

Or it came with instructions that said, "Stick pointy end in salmon and eels."

[Rebelbase]

"how do they know this? Maybe it was used to spear rattlesnakes or something."

There are no poisonous snakes in Nova Scotia. :-)

[Cowman]

no ray guns?

your wish is my command

[mamelukesabre]

First off, I don't count gold.

But, If you're telling me that there are copper knives and spears in canada from 4000BC, that really would be something impressive and quite shocking...but honestly I don't beleive it, since the pilgrims were shot at with stone arrows in AD1600s. I guess I'll wait and see how well this claim stands up to scientists criticisms.

[Swordmaker]

There are no poisonous snakes in Nova Scotia. :-)

SEE! It was an effective snake spear.

[Natural Law]

Archaeology is a science where where absolute proof is rarely achieved. In the absence of overwhelming evidence and data, hypothesis are put forth and then tested by peer review and further data collection. In this case a tool, similar in size, material and shape to others known to be used for spearing fish, was found next to a waterway with a significant salmon run. The conclusion is pretty obvious.

What is your learned counter-hypothesis or grounds for dismissal?

[Harmless Teddy Bear]

Copper was mined in the UP of Michigan and copper and silver objects have been found in mounds in Ohio dating to well before Europeans arrived.

The problem with copper is that it decays rapidly in damp climate unless something unusual is done to preserve it.

[mamelukesabre]

so why weren't they using copper to kill the english and french?

[Ichneumon]

In this case a tool, similar in size, material and shape to others known to be used for spearing fish, was found next to a waterway with a significant salmon run. The conclusion is pretty obvious.

Additionally, other similar spears could have been found among piles of bones of salmon and eels next to the ashes of a campfire, for instance.

[Harmless Teddy Bear]

Civilizations rise and fall.

The one in the Ohio valley vanished about 1100 AD which was about the time a lot of civilizations vanished. My personal belief is that the little Ice Age caused a drought of epic proportions to hit the Americas. About four major Meso-American civilizations that we know of collapsed at this time.

A lot of knowledge was lost when civilizations fell in Europe, why would you think it would be different in the Americas?

[-=Wing_0_Walker=-]

We need a reincarnation, and fast. Like the Pres better than Kerry (yecht) but a Ronnie he ain't He is trying his own variation of Reaganomics. I am not that positive about Georgenomics. The raised land values, similar to the increases under Accelerated Depreciation etc (supply economics) aren't backed by American Productivity, an American work force or the means of production. In essence, our dollar is nose diving and contrary to the "Return to an Honest Dollar" promised and delivered by Ronnie, Bush will crash the dollar until the means of production comes back to the USA.- IT WON'T UNLESS

Bt way of explanation, offshoring and the balance of payments has brought about the increase in oil, gold and land. The dollar is nose diving. I saw a power washer (Honda) at $997 at Home Depot. Three years ago it was under $500. I think Bush figures an American will say, "Hey I can make that cheaper". He will, but offshore and HQ on a tax sheltered island. Unless the sending of money home by illegals and other immigrants is also curtailed, as well as tax reform to make it profitable to manufacture in the US, the dollar is headed to Yuan status. Just My Opinion. Was PRO Reagan then and still admire the man - his wife on the other hand is a closet nut / Democrat IMHO, of course.

[Antoninus]

"There was a real functioning civilization here when the Europeans began to come here en masse, but the proof has been virtually destroyed. And all of a sudden we are finding the proof."

Sure there was. But I haven't seen much proof to indicate that this 8,000 year old civilization had anything to do with the Mi'kmaqs. In fact, it almost certainly didn't. Who knows who they were?

[Antoninus]

so why weren't they using copper to kill the english and french?

Because, as far as we know, the Mi'kmaqs and the other Eastern Woodland tribes that inhabited eastern North America when the Europeans arrived were stone-age peoples who didn't know metal-working. The people who left the metal implements were probably not even ancestors of the Mi'kmaqs of today. It's a mystery who they were.

There are certain people, both in the media and in the Native American community, though, who just assume that any artifacts found on land occupied by a given tribe at the time of the European arrival MUST have been left by their tribal ancestors. Indeed, considering how nomadic many of the tribes were, it's a ridiculous assertion.

[elli1]

First off, I don't count gold.

The bulk of that burial mask appears to be copper. The Moche worked gold, silver & copper.

'Copper, wood & resin' Moche ceremonial digging stick

[elli1]

Hammered Copper Effigy-Hopewell Culture (100 B.C.-400 A.D.)

Ohio History Central

[mamelukesabre]

"The people who left the metal implements were probably not even ancestors of the Mi'kmaqs of today. It's a mystery who they were."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`

The primitives killed them off. THat's my hunch. Not always does the more advanced culture displace the more primitive ones. The greenland vikings dissapeared, and I think they were exterminated. And I really think there were labrador and newfoundland vikings as well that were exterminated.

In the short term, the only technology that matters is making war and if you aren't prepared for that short term threat, you become a short term corpse. Textiles, metal, farming, transport, housing...it's all superfluous to the immediate threat of war. What's more important are experienced individuals that know how to survive, know how to kill efficiently, know how to hide and escape, how to scout and track(especially in the absensce of good maps), and know how to organize teams of brigands. manufacturing and agriculture are worthless assets if they are undefendable.

I think it was here at free republic that I learned that the mormons beleive there were advanced civilizations in south america that rivaled those of the mediteranean at the time of christ, and that after the resurection, christ visited them. But then some time later, they were exterminated by primitives from the jungles.

Who knows, maybe there's something to it. I really don't know where or what their proof is for this story though.

[SunkenCiv]