Bush Interview: "This should not be an amnesty program"

Houston Chronicle ^ | August 2, 2005 | JULIE MASON Interview with George W. Bush

[WhiteGuy]

Do you believe that our country is being protected adequately?

It's a yes or no question.

[Alia]

Who's the "Red Queen"?

I do not at all disagree with your points, NewRomeTacitus:

it's that too many problems are coming from the one issue. I'm personally convinced that without illegal immigration we'd have far less crime, social upheaval, hospital bankruptcies, slums and corruption of employers reduced to crime in order to compete against their less ethical competitors. We'd have slightly higher prices for some goods but would recoup/benefit from lower tax demands, higher quality education, less disease, more employment opportunities for actual citizens and traitors scurrying for some other way to dismantle our country.

All accusations of racism by so-called advocates are therefore so much reeking fertilizer, attempts to capitalize on the undeserved guilt liberal and fence-straddling Americans not immunized from "politically correct thinking" indulge in.

Oh, I'll just say it bluntly: The MSM and opponents to halting and dealing with the issue of illegal immigration are obviously here in this forum, looking for quotes and data. Anything. They are desperate.

I have no problems with calling a spade a spade; but there are often very smart ways to do so which do not endanger or expose folks trying to deal assertively with the criminal matter of "illegal immigration". And were any "pro-illegal immigration" folks to enter the forum -- nail 'em.

I watched how the MSM tried to tie CA's Props 187 and Props 209 - as "evil cousins" in the 90s. I marvelled at how the socialists thought this.

And I did get to see how illegals here, got into bureacratic positions of control due the ruse of "preferential quotas". In sum, the libbies were defending their "business agenda". And that's why they tried via MSM to "connect" the two initiatives. Because, the two were linked not only in re illegals, but also in re ACLU, and anti-American activists getting "taxpayer funded jobs".

Again, I do have major respect for the Minuteman watching the borders. They've done some great good too, in saving the lives of those illegally crossing the border.

The issue of "illegal immigrants" go far deeper than just guarding the borders. That's my point.

There's micro and then macro policy discussions underlying the "illegal immigration" threads. Sometimes, the undercurrent puts otherwise united FReepers at each other when it actually, shouldn't.

In re my "hysteria" thoughts.. sometimes when people awaken, politically, to really *scary* issues, they darned nearly jump out of their skins. ALERT! ALERT! That's very normal. Been there. But I've been there long enough to see that dealing with the issue coupled with a cool head, and even smoother manner of discussing the issue can accomplish far more than the *reactionary* ones. Initially, strong calls to arms, so to speak, can build a core group -- and beautifully. Once built, more discerning and experienced voicings can save a movement a great deal of trouble, and "interruptus" in continuing to discuss the movement.

I watched the video BurbankKarl posted in re the Minutemen being heckled and harassed in Campo.

I didn't think the Minutemen looked, AT ALL, like they were backing down. They reminded me of Gary Cooper prototypes. Having witnessed first-hand and through many years of observing the anti-American radicals and what they are actually capable of doing (and sometimes, have), I think the Minuteman responded to the situation VERY WELL. Professionally. I watched it several times, viewed it from several perspectives. Their cool, calm reaction to the HYSTERICS was EXCELLENT. And appropriate. Were I a lefty, I'd wanna join the Hysterical movement -- galvanizing my hysterical pals along the border to go heckle the Minutemen.

But here's the rub... those watching these videos? The vast majority? Experience time and time again has shown me... most people do not want to belong to a group of anti-American hysterics. Liberals are performing the activities of "aversion therapy". And the MSM airs it. lol. And this emboldens the Democrats (party of pro-open borders) to step into the spotlight more boldly and often to expose their real agenda even further on major MSM.

That's what's interesting about "doing the right thing" -- there are positives that happen that often "those doing the right thing" cannot or do not often see. And because they are doing the upfront work.

I've rattled on and on. Thanks for reading. I appreciate your post.

[inquest]

Nor to seriously enforce current laws against hiring illegals.

I honestly don't know what direction that might take us in. If employers continue to find ways of evading those laws, then it could start to make life more difficult for legitimate employees if they find themselves more and more having to prove that they are legitimate. My preferred method of dealing with the problem is to fence the border. The expense would be minimal compared to the size of the federal budget, and it wouldn't inconvenience the lives of any citizens, except for the few whose property abuts the border.

[Stu Cohen]

They would have to leave afterward

Uh. Since when has this been enforced?

Honor system?

[inquest]

Actually, I do< address securing the borders. You just don't like the way I suggest we take the pressure off the people hired to do so.

At #36 you advocated letting illegals in this country register to become legal. Proposals like that do not take pressure off the people hired to secure the borders. It drastically increases the pressure on them, by giving further encouragement for aliens to enter the country illegally. There's been a proposal in Congress for months for a guest-worker program that would exclude illegals, and the President and other top GOP leaders refuse to give it any consideration.

That's the acid test of whether or not a person really means it when he says that he wants to take pressure off the Border Patrol. When a person balks at that, you know he's just blowing smoke, and you do see it quite a bit on FR, albeit from a very small number of posters including yourself.

[Stu Cohen]

Yes. 46 beats per minute, or something like that.

I wonder what Ted Kennedy's resting heart rate is.

30.

After the morning gallon of Vodka.

[american spirit]

I agree and I think if there were several highly publicized events where certain employers were "outed" and slammed with all the penalties for breaking federal law by hiring illegals as well as evading taxes we might see a change in the hiring habits of those who thumb their nose at the law.

If this doesn't happen we can expect to see real conflicts between employers within communities who employ Americans, pay their payroll taxes and offer benefits vs. those who employ illegals and break the law in the process, EVADE payroll taxes and pay their new employees minimal wages knowing full well the taxpayers will get socked with other living expenses. Should this travesty continue unabated, we'll be a true banana republic in the next 15-20 years.

[Stu Cohen]

No president is ever going to give you 100% of your heart's desire; learn to live in reality!

The President isn't supposed to "give" us anything. He is our employee who is supposed to agressively represent and pursue the wishes of the U.S. citizens.

This isn't a Monarchy.

close to 600 M-13 fang members, most of whom were illegals, were picked up in the last two weeks and after incarceration, will be deported, with more on the way.

At which point they will re-cross the border and pick up where they left off. These deportations are called "vacations in Cancun". See you soon. We'll bring some friends with us too.

[Stu Cohen]

No president is ever going to give you 100% of your heart's desire; learn to live in reality!

The President isn't supposed to "give" us anything. He is our employee who is supposed to agressively represent and pursue the wishes of the U.S. citizens.

This isn't a Monarchy.

close to 600 M-13 fang members, most of whom were illegals, were picked up in the last two weeks and after incarceration, will be deported, with more on the way.

At which point they will re-cross the border and pick up where they left off. These deportations are called "vacations in Cancun". See you soon. We'll bring some friends with us too.

[FBD]

Hi, thanks for the replies.

Our immigration system is severely broken. I’m not sure what the answer is, but I doubt that enacting another “managed” trade agreement like CAFTA is going to help anymore then NAFTA did. And a guest worker program...might help a little, but I don't think it's going to deal with the MS-13 gangs and the drug runners.

I honestly think we need to build a border fence/wall to assist our border patrol agents. Granted it won't keep out everyone, but (I believe)it will help cut down the illegal crossings significantly.

All one has to do is take an honestly look at the statistics, to see the almost overwhelming severity of the problem.
This article by Heather Mac Donald, (who has testified before Congress) and the stats below were a real eye opener for me:

The Illegal-Alien Crime Wave By Heather Mac Donald

• In Los Angeles, 95 percent of all outstanding warrants for homicide (which total 1,200 to 1,500) target illegal aliens. Up to two-thirds of all fugitive felony warrants (17,000) are for illegal aliens.

• A confidential California Department of Justice study reported in 1995 that 60 percent of the 20,000-strong 18th Street Gang in southern California is illegal; police officers say the proportion is actually much greater.
The bloody gang collaborates with the Mexican Mafia, the dominant force in California prisons, on complex drug-distribution schemes, extortion, and drive-by assassinations, and commits an assault or robbery every day in L.A. County. The gang has grown dramatically over the last two decades by recruiting recently arrived youngsters, most of them illegal, from Central America and Mexico.

---

“There are an estimated 80,000 criminal illegal aliens in the country, which are people who have committed crimes in the United States and are due for deportation but remain at large. An estimated 4,000 of those criminal illegal aliens are from countries that support terrorism."~ source- Lou Dobbs

---

[Cincinatus' Wife]

........Rather, somenthing that focused on financial incentives (say it cost 3 times the amount to apply once you were already inside) would more likely create a rush to Mexico, so as to get in cheaper. Seems that way to me, anyway.

Good idea!

[FBD]

Hi,
here's the link where I found the info to Jefferson's 'Notes on Virginia', at the University of Virginia:

Jefferson, Thomas, 1743-1826 . Notes on the State of Virginia / From The Writings of Thomas Jefferson: Volume 2
Electronic Text Center, University of Virginia Library

"QUERY VIII."
The number of its inhabitants?
LINK:

http://etext.lib.virginia.edu/etcbin/toccer-new2?id=JefBv021.sgm&images=images/modeng&data=/texts/english/modeng/parsed&tag=public&part=8&division=div2

---

Here are a couple more quotes by Franklin, and Madison:

---

"Why should the Palatine boors be suffered to swarm into our settlements, and, by herding together, establish their language and manners to the exclusion of our?"

"Why should Pennsylvania, founded by the English, become a colony of aliens, who will shortly be so numerous as to Germanize us, instead of our Anglifying them . . . ?" Benjamin Franklin, 1751 (qtd. in Spencer 549)

---

"To admit foreigners indiscriminately to the rights of citizens, the moment they put foot into our country ... would be nothing less than to admit the Grecian horse into the citadel of our liberty and sovereignty." ~Alexander Hamilton, 1802

[american spirit]

I wouldn't classify locking down the borders and re-instituting a safe method of admitting LEGAL immigrants as draconian or freedom threatening. In fact, since a signicant # of illegals are murderers, rapists, thieves, diseased, etc. it only makes sense to protect our populace from people like this. I don't believe the fantasy of "they just come here to work" crap either......a few hundred billion of our tax $ paid out to support them for medical, housing, food, education, etc. would suggest otherwise.

[chris1]

The bottom line is many of these people simply don't want to be legal! Don't you get that yet? They want to work for cash under the table to send home yet still get as many benefits from this country as possible without paying for it. The situation is good for employers who can avoid many payroll taxes etc and easily trample over these people who have little recourse out of fear of getting found out.

So long as employers don't fear hiring these people and illegal aliens feel they can game our system with no repurcutions, we will have an illegal alien problem.

[chris1]

Don't confuse these people with the facts. They get in the way!