Shaped from clay [origin of life]

Nature Magazine ^ | 03 November 2005 | Philip Ball

[furball4paws]

"The existence of airborne bacteria isn't relevant to the original post."

Ah, but it is in this respect (BTW PB did a nice job with the history, with one exception noted below).

Sooner or later some Creationoid will pop up to say Pasteur disproved spontaneous generation, so the history is relevant. Some of Pasteur's flasks still exist. I have seen them at the Institute of Pasteur (about the only reason I can think of to go to France). They are still sterile after more than 100 years (sealed ones).

But Pasteur DID NOT DISPROVE SPONTANEOUS GENERATION (exception referred to above), he proved that broths became contaminated because there were microbes in air. Because it's virtually impossible to prove a negative, his experiments have no relevancy to current studies on abiogenesis. But the Creationoids will try to make it sound that way.

Who knows, by the time I post this one may already have shown its ugly head.

[RogueIsland]

Find another red herring.

I think the Creationists have hunted that species to the brink of extinction.

[RobbyS]

Well, Genesis says that man was formed from clay into which life was breathed. But I am still waiting for scientists to offer a mechanism for spontaneous generation. Until that time I must say they offer no more than Genesis does.

[mikeus_maximus]

Pardon me, but are you seriously suggesting that random selection, and inherited variation, are not 2 chance events?

Okay...

[Antonello]

Sooner or later some Creationoid will pop up to say Pasteur disproved spontaneous generation...Who knows, by the time I post this one may already have shown its ugly head.

Naw, apparently they decided to go with the 'just because you found some more puzzle pieces doesn't mean the assembled puzzle isn't still a leap of faith' strategy.

[CarolinaGuitarman]

"Pardon me, but are you seriously suggesting that random selection, and inherited variation, are not 2 chance events?"

There is no such thing as *random selection*. Natural selection is the exact opposite of random. *Random selection* is a creationist talking point but it has no relation to evolution or what evolutionary biologists have proposed.

[furball4paws]

Maybe, but I predict they won't be able to restrain themselves. The opportunity to use one of the greatest scientists of modern times to beat current scientific endeavors will be too great to resist, even tough the use will be a lie.

[furball4paws]

Consider whether in the ancient atmosphere and oceans whether or not nickel carbonyl was stable enough to be a catalyst.

[PatrickHenry]

I wonder how this will affect the calculations of the mathematical improbability crowd.

No effect at all. They will still produce their elaborate calculations showing how impossibly improbable it is for random atoms, from random locations all over the universe, to randomly fly together and spontaneously form a DNA molecule, or a living cell, or whatever. If they knew anything about organic chemistry, they would understand that it's difficult to prevent organic molecules from forming; they've even been discovered in space. But then, if they had any exposure to actual science, they wouldn't be creationists, would they?

[Right Wing Professor]

Pardon me, but are you seriously suggesting that random selection, and inherited variation, are not 2 chance events?

Neither selection nor inheritance is random.

[MHalblaub]

"Pardon me, but are you seriously suggesting that random selection, and inherited variation, are not 2 chance events? "

How do you define a selection that is random and
how do you define a variation that is inherited?


Another red herring again?
Putting together two separated evolutionary processes in one is a straw-man.

[metmom]

Sounds more like two different questions being asked in one sentence.

[Physicist]

They move round,
Sunlight,
Seeing ground,
Whispers of clay,
Alternate ways

[Antonello]

Sounds more like two different questions being asked in one sentence.

Random selection - the combining of 'random mutation' and 'natural selection'.
Inherited variation - the combining of 'inherited traits' and 'genetic variation'.

All done to create a strawman to make it appear that evolution is random.

[js1138]

You really have no clue, do you?

[metmom]

The Biblical order of life being created on Earth is the same as the evolutionists tell us it happened, also. First, plants then, sea creatures, then birds, then land animals and man last. Hmm.

[PatrickHenry]

Alternate view, surely, surely.

[Antonello]

The Biblical order of life being created on Earth is the same as the evolutionists tell us it happened, also. First, plants then, sea creatures, then birds, then land animals and man last. Hmm.

well, except that land animals came before birds.

[js1138]

I wonder how this will affect the calculations of the mathematical improbability crowd.

As you find out how each step works, they will add up to certainty.

The ID crowd is already anticipating this and have coined the phrase Intelligent Evolution. Denton has written a book about it, and Dembski might be coming on board.

[Antonello]

The ID crowd is already anticipating this and have coined the phrase Intelligent Evolution. Denton has written a book about it, and Dembski might be coming on board.

And those poor creationists have to keep selling their souls a little at a time to keep up with 'the enemy of their enemy'. Sad.