Shaped from clay [origin of life]

Nature Magazine ^ | 03 November 2005 | Philip Ball

[mikeus_maximus]

Another red herring again?

Department of Redundacy Department? :) In any event, I'm afraid I don't see your point about "putting together two spearted evolutionary processes in one." What one? Reading that it seems like you had to work overtime to try to come up with some way to use another logical fallacy epithet, which is someting evo-groupies like to do as opposed to, say, actually discussing the issues. It's next on the list right after "launch ad hominem attack" as a way to quash debate.

In any event, the probability of two independat processes both occuring is even more damning for your side, don't you think? The improbablity expands algebraically. Thanks for helping to make my point.:)

[Alter Kaker]

First, plants then, sea creatures, then birds, then land animals and man last. Hmm.

I don't know what you mean by "land animals" -- maybe modern mammals? -- but the first land animals existed hundreds of millions of years before the first birds.

[Antonello]

In any event, I'm afraid I don't see your point about "putting together two spearted evolutionary processes in one."

See my post #54.

[Alter Kaker]

In any event, the probability of two independat processes both occuring is even more damning for your side, don't you think?

Actually, there aren't two processes, there are four (selection, mutation, gene flow, and genetic drift). But they aren't independent. They are directly interrelated. Mutation is random on the individual level, but it is guided by natural selection, which is inherently non-random and purpose-driven.

[microgood]

These findings add weight to the idea that clays were the key to the origin of life.

This is just silly. Everyone knows life started when a lightning bolt hit a pond of primordial goo. This is just blasphemy.

[Right Wing Professor]

In any event, the probability of two independat processes both occuring is even more damning for your side, don't you think? The improbablity expands algebraically. Thanks for helping to make my point.:)

Or two red herrings stink four times as badly as one.

[narby]

"Then God said, 'Let the earth bring forth living creatures after their kind:...'"

Sounds like abiogenesis to me.

[tutstar]

oh brother!

[JSDude1]

Well these people are getting closer to the truth; but they are not quite there yet: man did come from clay, but it took God (a miracle) to cause life ;)!

[Varda]

As the previous posters say land animals came before birds. Genesis one isn't about sequences. The sacred writers purposefully placed stumbling blocks in the writing to take certain ideas off the table. Genesis two isn't about sequences either (my bad interpretation included) but it does refute the idea that man was created ex nihilo.

[b_sharp]

"Unbelievable. Simple carbon compounds are combined in the right soil conditions, and from that we're to assume that they not only organized themselves into vastly complex patterns of codified information, but spontaneously generated life. I wish I could have that of faith."

The science behind abiogensis is all about what is possible. If we find a number of different conditions that lead to some sort of life forming we will have shown that life on earth forming spontaneously is not fantasy. No one is supposing that the research will lead to 'the' one path life on earth did take. To poke around into the possible paths does not take faith, it does take curiosity, patience and education.

[b_sharp]

What is your point?

[JSDude1]

Oh yeah that isn't a 'fallacy' in among itself: a generalization, that is not necessarily true and an attack on ~all~ of one group of people; yeah I really respect your opionion..

[metmom]

It specifcally mentions cattle and beasts of the earth. It says creeping things but does not specifically mention anything like lizard or serpent. That's open to interpretation. Where do snakes fit in? Are they reptiles that lost their lega or did they come first and legs develop later? Or is there no good fossil record of this? I imagine that snake skeletons are pretty fragile.

[b_sharp]

Could you please point out the similarities of this version of spontaneous generation to abiogenesis?

[dennisw]

For growing crops clay soil is better than sandy soil.

[metmom]

Did mammals appear at the same time as birds then, or does the evidence show whether birds appeared first or mammals appear first?

[b_sharp]

Thanks for the banner.

This disclaimer should be presented every time an abiogensis thread gets posted.

[b_sharp]

Hair triggers, all. :)

[Senator Bedfellow]

What's that? It's "Beat up on Pharmboy" day?

:^)