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Cold And Deep: Antarctica's Lake Vostok Has Two Big Neighbors
Science News Online ^ | 2-8-2006 | Sid Perkins

Posted on 02/08/2006 3:52:36 PM PST by blam

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To: Toby06

There's a pretty extensive research program looking at how to drill these lakes without contamination; NASA is involved because the same techniques will have to be used to drill the oceans of Europa below ice.


21 posted on 02/08/2006 4:38:44 PM PST by Strategerist
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To: Strategerist

Is't there a movie with some old guys who go do that to save the world?


22 posted on 02/08/2006 4:40:28 PM PST by Toby06 (Hindsight alone is not wisdom, and second-guessing is not a strategy)
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To: blam

"Loaded with bacteria, germs and etc."

1. I would prefer a lighter brine (salt water)
2. No, you can make it very caustic (or whatever) and eliminate the bacteria, germs, etc.

Or just boil it under pressure.


23 posted on 02/08/2006 4:41:47 PM PST by MeanWestTexan (Many at FR would respond to Christ "Darn right, I'll cast the first stone!")
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To: Toby06

"However, arent' they just drilling ice? How do you restrain the casing fdrom moving ineither direction? I can't imagine there is much skin friction holding the string."

1. No more or less mobile than drilling in sand, probably less so.

2. You can cement the lining in compressed ice. The russians do it all the time (or so I've been told).


24 posted on 02/08/2006 4:44:44 PM PST by MeanWestTexan (Many at FR would respond to Christ "Darn right, I'll cast the first stone!")
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To: Bernard Marx; All
Enjoyed your comment. Perhaps the weirdest, and yet, very successful example of Hollywood deviating from the original was in the very successful film "The Day The Earth Stood Still" Everyone knows Gort, and Clatu Baratu Niktu,. The screenplay faithfully followed the novella on which it was based.."Farewell to the Master"...( IMHO perhaps the finest piece of SF ever penned...) until the LADST page, when it completely deviates, and changes, from the novella, because it was felt that the denoument would be too disconcerting for the public to accept...

I'm not trying to be mysterious..I just don't want to ruin it for anyone who hasn't read the story...you shouldd be able to find it in any good SF anothology...if anyone wants the answer..just FReepmail me..regards''

25 posted on 02/08/2006 4:46:13 PM PST by ken5050 (Ann Coulter needs to have children ASAP to pass on her gene pool....any volunteers?)
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To: Toby06

"Use Bentonite with their density-improver Weight-it. at an Sg of 1.6"

You could, but why be over-balanced and dump all your mud into the lake? That's a blowout waiting to happen when you dump your column!

(I'm taking like I know the bottom hole pressure, HA!)

I am 99% sure you could do this with just 9.1 brine and a 15,000 pound stack and let it become underbalanced if it wants to.

Only chickens worry about being underbalanced.


26 posted on 02/08/2006 4:48:10 PM PST by MeanWestTexan (Many at FR would respond to Christ "Darn right, I'll cast the first stone!")
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To: MeanWestTexan

Damn, or you could just water it in place, if it's cold enough.


27 posted on 02/08/2006 4:49:48 PM PST by Toby06 (Hindsight alone is not wisdom, and second-guessing is not a strategy)
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To: WL-law
I happened to watch the Carpenter remake of The Thing last weekend -- my favorite sci-fi movie, BTW -- and this story has some eerie parallels. Be concerned...

Either that or the HP Lovecraft novel "The Mountains of Madness" river (sea) of styx.

28 posted on 02/08/2006 4:50:20 PM PST by Paul C. Jesup
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To: MeanWestTexan

Good point, dumping your column at penetration is never good!


29 posted on 02/08/2006 4:50:37 PM PST by Toby06 (Hindsight alone is not wisdom, and second-guessing is not a strategy)
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To: ken5050

Or better yet, they could read the story:


http://thenostalgialeague.com/olmag/bates.html


30 posted on 02/08/2006 4:59:10 PM PST by MeanWestTexan (Many at FR would respond to Christ "Darn right, I'll cast the first stone!")
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To: ken5050
Just found your story on line at Farewell to the Master I printed it out for the evening's reading. I don't recall reading it previously although I'll probably recognize it when I get into it. Thanks for the recommendation.
31 posted on 02/08/2006 5:09:42 PM PST by Bernard Marx (Don't make the mistake of interpreting my Civility as Servility)
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To: MeanWestTexan
Ancient Antarctic lake may erupt if drilled

Michael Field in Auckland
Agençe France-Presse
Wednesday, 20 August 2003

The cryobot ice submersible, bound for Jupiter's moon, Europa, which scientists would like to test in Lake Vostok (JPL)

Plans to drill into an ancient lake deep under ice in Antarctica may lead it to erupt in a massive geyser-like explosion, scientists have warned.

Lake Vostok in Antarctica has spent 15 million years under 4 km of ice, its waters sealed off from air and light for all that time under the tremendous pressure of the continental ice sheet. The 14,000 km2 lake, about 1,300 km from the South Pole, is one of the world's largest and scientists believe that it could offer unique research opportunities.

But despite opposition from environmentalists who fear drilling into the lake could destroy it, Russian scientists plan to cut through the ice until they come close to the surface of the lake.

U.S. scientists are also interested in drilling into the lake to see if any life forms can exist there, a finding which could lend weight to theories that life exists in other extreme environments such as other planets.

But these projects may be set back by a scientific paper in the latest issue of the journal, Geophysical Research Letters.

Dr Chris McKay at the NASA's Ames Research Centre in California warns that whoever drills into Vostok will have to be extremely careful.

He said the high gas concentrations believed to be present in Vostok "may result in a vigorous gas-driven flow if lake water is brought to the surface. "

He said the concentration of pent-up nitrogen and oxygen in lake water, under a pressure of 2.5 litres per kg, is about equal to that of "an unopened can of Coca Cola".

Burst like a can of soft drink

"The effects of rapid degassing of Coca Cola are well known," McKay said, adding that like the soft drink, the lake can be opened, but very carefully.

"Our research suggests that U.S. and Russian teams studying the lake should be careful when drilling because high gas concentrations could make the water unstable and potentially dangerous," McKay said. Research indicates the oxygen levels in lake water may be 50 times higher than the oxygen levels in ordinary freshwater lakes.

"Lake Vostok is an extreme environment, one that is super-saturated with oxygen," he said. "No other natural lake environment on Earth has this much oxygen."

Research also suggests that organisms living in Lake Vostok may have had to evolve special adaptions, such as high concentrations of protective enzymes, to survive the lake's oxygen-rich environment. Such defence mechanisms may also protect life in Lake Vostok from oxygen radicals, the dangerous by-products of oxygen breakdown that cause cell and DNA damage.

A satellite photo with Lake Vostok highlited

In 1957 the Soviet Union erected its first Antarctic base at Vostok, in part of the territory claimed by Australia. Only in 1994 did they realise they were above a lake equal in area to Lake Ontario, on the border between the U.S. Canada, but up to four times as deep.

The Soviets drilled 3.62 km into the protective shell of ice, but stopped when poised a just few hundred metres above the liquid water. When they pulled out core samples, they filled the hole with kerosene and freon to keep it from collapsing.

Dr David Karl, an oceanographer of the University of Hawaii said the sample, which is still at Vostok, was so clear "you could read a newspaper through this ice core. This is the best sample we have of the open lake, at least until the point the ice is drilled."

Intrusion into unique environment

But some scientists are concerned about intrusions into such a pristine environment. "It doesn't know anything of human beings, fossil fuels or plastics," said Dr Robin Bell, a geophysicist at Columbia University's Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory, speaking about the lake. "It is a window into life forms and climates of primordial eras."

Environmenatlists have also voiced objections. The Antarctic and Southern Ocean Coalition, a U.S. group based in Washington, called for a moratorium on drilling into Vostok. Any new technology to drill should first be tested on any of the 70 other lakes in Antarctica, they said.

The biggest push to explore the lake comes from the U.S. National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA) and the its leading space studies centre, the Jet Propulsion Laboratory in California, both of whom want to study the internal environment of Lake Vostok in preparation for a mission to Jupiter's icy-encrusted moon, Europa.

The New Zealand-based Royal Forest and Bird Society is also opposed to the drilling. "It does seem strange to us that in order to find life on another planet they want to drill into Lake Vostok and contaminate it," the society's Barry Weeber said.

Julie Palais, glaciology program manager for the US National Science Foundation's Office of Polar Programs, said it may take more than a decade for drilling to happen.

"As a scientist you don't want your gravestone to read that this is the person who contaminated one of the last frontiers on the planet," she said.

32 posted on 02/08/2006 5:16:23 PM PST by blam
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To: MeanWestTexan
Set you last string of casing a few hundred feet above the lake. Drill out using a foam brine water. Once you get close to the lake the hydrostatic pressure of the foam brine would be much less than the overburden. The water would then flow into the annulus until it reaches equilibrium. You would not contaminate the lake nor would you have a blow out. Since ice is lighter than water the hydrostatic head of the water in the annulus is more than the overburden pressure. Once it reaches equilibrium you would have to pump you samples out. This would not be a very tough engineering problem.
33 posted on 02/08/2006 5:52:36 PM PST by cpdiii (roughneck (oil field trash and proud of it), geologist, pilot, pharmacist, full time iconoclast)
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To: blam
they filled the hole with kerosene and freon to keep it from collapsing.

So that's where the freon came from that caused the hole in the Ozone layer over the south pole.

34 posted on 02/08/2006 6:06:49 PM PST by PAR35
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To: blam

Those are nothing pressures.

The oilfield deals with far more.

This is a zero issue.


35 posted on 02/08/2006 6:17:36 PM PST by MeanWestTexan (Many at FR would respond to Christ "Darn right, I'll cast the first stone!")
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To: MeanWestTexan

Very cool. Went to school in West texas....Great BBQ brisket. ( Which I cook here in California) Thanks for the info.


36 posted on 02/08/2006 6:20:48 PM PST by Walkingfeather
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To: WL-law
"I happened to watch the Carpenter remake of The Thing last weekend -- my favorite sci-fi movie, BTW -- and this story has some eerie parallels. Be concerned..."

For the more recent horror movies ( late 20th century ), that one is a gem.

37 posted on 02/08/2006 6:27:51 PM PST by Tench_Coxe
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To: MeanWestTexan
He said the concentration of pent-up nitrogen and oxygen in lake water, under a pressure of 2.5 litres per kg, is about equal to that of "an unopened can of Coca Cola".--Dr Chris McKay

Sounds like the good doctor would not last too long on a type B or C perforating crew.

38 posted on 02/08/2006 6:58:02 PM PST by The Cajun
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To: blam
The earth is not just strange, it is stranger than we can know.

How badly they want to drill into that lake, but to do so would contaminate the water.

39 posted on 02/08/2006 7:15:29 PM PST by Mike Darancette (Condimaniac)
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To: MeanWestTexan

Many thanks...BTW..have you read it?


40 posted on 02/09/2006 3:26:51 AM PST by ken5050 (Ann Coulter needs to have children ASAP to pass on her gene pool....any volunteers?)
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