Sunspots May Cause Climate Fluctuations (Duh!)

The Harvard Crimson ^ | 4/14/2009 | ERIC W. BAUM

[Star Traveler]

*Very obligatory* AGW (Anthropogenic Global Warming) post..., and yes..., we can make the quips, cracks, snide remarks, obvious statements, statements of protest, of common sense and so on — but — they’ll never convince anyone else..., like our neighbors and friends and relatives.

—

BUT, folks..., this is the *one* to see.., you can forget about all the other books, all the other articles, all the other movies... just see this one... LOL...

It’s one thing to gripe and complain about these things and disagree with it, but it’s quite *another* to convince your friends and neighbors and relatives and coworkers...

THEREFORE..., it’s also absolutely necessary for people to know the information in the following documentary. If there were simply *one* video that you could see and/or show people you know... this would be the *one*...

The following is an *excellent* video documentary on the so-called “Global Warming” I would recommend it to all FReepers. It’s a very well-made documentary.

“The Great Global Warming Swindle”

If you want to download it, via a BitTorrent site (using a BitTorrent client), you can get it at the following link.
http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/3635222/The_Great_Global_Warming_Swindle
[this is a high-quality copy, of about a gigabyte in size...]

It’s worth seeing and having for relatives, friends, neighbors and coworkers to see.

Also, see it online here...
http://www.moviesfoundonline.com/great_global_warming_swindle.php
[this one is considerably lower quality, is a flash video and viewable online, of course...]

Buy it here...
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000WLUXZE
[this one would be the very highest quality version, on a DVD disk, of several gigabytes in size...]

[Darwin Fish]

"Its because thats so much higher than at any time humans have been on the earth and that temperatures are also at a peak and that there is good theoretical reasoning to think that CO2 causes warming. Plus a very strong correlation for 100,000 years +"

Actually, most of the development of both our humanoid ancestors and plant life occurred when CO2 was around 1000 ppm. We are presently at a much lower level than that. Also, the earth has been much warmer in the past 1000 years, and much, much warmer in the past 500,000 years, when humans really developed. I'm not sure where you get off making the statements that you do.

[Darwin Fish]

"The temperature increase is only a few degrees per century - its not surprising a local minimum in solar flares could slow that rise for a while..."

According to the computer models. There is no actual proof, just models. Those models can't even predict what already happened; that is, when you feed data from the 50 years ago into the models, they all get it wrong as to where we are today. The models predict a much higher planetary temperature than we actually have today. If they can't even do that much right, only a fool would think they would be correct predicting future planetary temperature.

" But the ultimate measure is sea level. Warming will be over when the seas start going down and that had not happened."

How about, warming isn't happening because the seas haven't risen at all, unlike what the models predicted? Is that what you meant? There was this big symposium a couple years ago, where some planetary warming scientist showed the seas rising. Turns out, he added in his own "fudge factor" to get that result. When questioned about it, he stated something to the effect of "but if I didn't put it in, there would be no rising trend!"

[Darwin Fish]

Here's one quick quote and source:

Our modeling results show that nonlinear patterns were parabolic, asymptotic, and threshold-like in response to temperature, CO2, and precipitation anomalies, respectively, for NPP, NEE, and R(h).

1: Ecol Appl. 2008 Mar;18(2):453-66.Links Modeling patterns of nonlinearity in ecosystem responses to temperature, CO2, and precipitation changes. Zhou X, Weng E, Luo Y. Department of Botany and Microbiology, University of Oklahoma, Norman, Oklahoma 73019, USA. zxuhui14@ou.edu

That took maybe 45 seconds on google.

[John Valentine]

But the ultimate measure is sea level. Warming will be over when the seas start going down and that had not happened.

You ought not to go there. There isn't any reliable indication of rising sea levels associated with global warming ANYWHERE in the world. There is only the very minimal rise associated with the end of the last ice age.

Places which have been alleged to be endanged on account of rising sea levels, i.e the Maldives, Nuaru, Kiribati, and so on have been utterly debunked.

Where there is obvious sea incursion on what was historically dry land, such as on the Batavia plain in Java, the effect is the result of subsidence due to the extraction of ground water.

So, what we have is no evidence of sea level rise, no evidence of "greenhouse gas" induced warming, no evidence of arctic sea ice diminishment, and indeed no evidence of anything other than a form of mass dementia.

One more thing - sea levels WON'T subside absent a fairly substantial cooling: i.e. sea level is a LAGGING indicator. It is enough that they are not rising, or are rising at an insignificant but most likely diminishing rate, which is the case worldwide.

[John Valentine]

Its because thats so much higher than at any time humans have been on the earth and that temperatures are also at a peak and that there is good theoretical reasoning to think that CO2 causes warming. Plus a very strong correlation for 100,000 years +

THIS staement of yours is complete hogswollop.

[agere_contra]

But the ultimate measure is sea level. Warming will be over when the seas start going down and that had not happened.

The sea levels have been rising since the end of the last Ice Age: 6000 to 11000 years ago depending on your definition of "Ice Age". Sea levels will begin to sink when the next Ice Age starts.

[Justa]

Due to colder temps over the last 10 years he’s deferring to the much longer scale of sea level rise as in “we know there’s global warming because the oceans have been rising”. He doesn’t want to consider global temperatures unless they confirm his hypothesis.

[Moonman62]

I hope he has tenure. He’s going to feel like Galileo if he doesn’t.

[steelyourfaith]

 

Beam me to Planet Gore !

[almcbean]

What a nut. To think that the sun affects our global temperature. SHEESH. Doesn’t he know it’s 93 million miles away.

Everyone knows (or should I say “most scientists agree”)that it gets warm in the summer because we drive our SUV’s more, and it begins to cool in the winter because we drive less.

[CanaGuy]

I think he's right, it looks pretty clean to me.

http://sohowww.nascom.nasa.gov/data/realtime/mdi_igr/512/

[pleikumud]

CO2 is a trace element in the atmosphere, with the latest estimate being about 380 parts per million. Water vapor is the most common greenhouse gas. Without greenhouse gases, the Earth would be too cold for humans.

But ask anyone if they think greenhouse gases are bad, and 99% will say “yes”, because most people are ignorant of scientific facts. Obama would like to keep people ignorant, so he can get “cap & trade” taxes. Those taxes, which would easily be several hundred billion dollars a year, would kill our economy.

[silverleaf]

an inconvenient astrophysicist

and one whose federal grant money should dry up quickly to silence him

[silverleaf]

Want a good laugh (or maybe a grim chuckle?)
Read this 2001 NASA report on Maunder Minimum

http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Newsroom/view.php?old=200112065794

Then read the last paragraph.
BTW, I am reading there is a debate about at what point science will be forced to conclude we have entered another maunder minmum, vs the current solar minimum.

Greenhouse gases and climate warming may be earth’s efforts to continue producing enough food and fresh water to sustain 6 billion humans during the the next ice age. No one is talking about whether a climate change that allows Russia China and Canada and arid zones in other nations to grow more food with less water might be a good thing.
http://www.heartland.org/publications/environment%20climate/article/9880/Wheat_keeps_winning.html

[algernonpj]

“that doesn’t mean CO2 isn’t still a big a factor”

.
CO2 is a lagging indicator when global temperatures increase.
The lag is about 700 - 800 years. As temperatures increase, the oceans release CO2; as they decrease the oceans absorb CO2.

Al Goreacle’s flaw in logic is that just because two things (increased temp and increased CO2) occur at the same time, does not mean one causes the other.

[dools007]

Wait before you get too irreverent about global warming. Sure as God made little red apples, the enviro wachos will determine that man influences sun spot activity.

[John Valentine]

You got it.

[Condor51]

“A strong correlation between the amount of radioactive carbon and temperature from ice cores has shown that solar activity can affect temperature,” Farrell said. ... He cautioned that the link was “a hypothesis...[that] does not have firm scientific grounding.”

only “a hypothesis"

[qam1]

But the ultimate measure is sea level. Warming will be over when the seas start going down and that had not happened.

http://sealevel.colorado.edu/

The trend has turned flat/downward since 2005/2006, so if sea level is the "ultimate measure" then this proves global warming has stopped