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The collectivist challenge to Darwinism (Evos admit that they may be forced to ditch neo-Darwinism)
ARN ^ | August 19, 2009 | David Tyler

Posted on 08/20/2009 10:14:53 AM PDT by GodGunsGuts

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To: UCANSEE2

I wouldn’t count on that with “all forms of life”. There may well be vast stores of viral bodies in the world ocean that were manufactured in a factory “somewhere else” and put into a transportation system that failed, leaving them here!


21 posted on 08/20/2009 12:12:59 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah
My own view is that all this is far more complex than simple DNA. There isn't all that much difference in genes in radically different species. There are other structures in the cell we only have the faintest idea of how they work and what role they play. I think there are incredible discoveries yet to be made and it's only our hubris that keeps us from the open minds needed to get after it in a big way.

Just my own unscientific two cents.

22 posted on 08/20/2009 12:16:19 PM PDT by colorado tanker (Martha's Vineyard is great! Hey, honey, let's take a drive . . . .)
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To: Retain Mike; GodGunsGuts; colorado tanker; stanz; sickoflibs; Alamo-Girl; <1/1,000,000th%; ...
RE :”Darwinist advocates contend contrary arguments require intrusion of God

See #15. It's Creationists like godguns that want you to believe that. It's just that the creationists pose as IDers on the theory that bringing down Darwinism is the #1 way to convince kids that Genesis (Books of Moses) is a science and history book and not a book of faith. They long ago decided that arguing those beliefs directly is a loser.

Yesterday he posted an argument from an atheist defending ID in a creationist christian blog. The two postings have nothing affirmative in common they all are supposed to go back to evolution is bad.

23 posted on 08/20/2009 12:21:14 PM PDT by sickoflibs (Socialist Conservatives: "'Big government is free because tax cuts pay for it'")
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[[You need to watch this one with your friends, especially the part with Noah’s Ark. They had no nails to put the Ark together, just logs, tar (??? or was this syrup from trees) and wooden hammers and wooden spikes.]]

Well By golly- I’d better not set foot in my mail-less post and beam 100 Year old barn anymore- apparently, it’s impossible for pegged boards and beams to hold up all these years, and not only that, but to support massive wight better than nailed boards- Hmmmm- phew- mighta saved my life learning that it couldn’t possibly be sound construction

Someonem ight wanna inform the early pioneers and native americans that they couldn’t have possibly have built any sound items like houses, boats, chairs, tables, wagons, plows, etc etc etc without nails too- I bet they’ll be releived to know their relatives couldn’t possibly have innovated, and indeed thrived, without hte use of nails


24 posted on 08/20/2009 1:12:13 PM PDT by CottShop (Scientific belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge)
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To: sickoflibs; GodGunsGuts; metmom

Saw the movie “The Bible :In the Beginning’ 1966 on reto-plex

You need to watch this one with your friends, especially the part with Noah’s Ark. They had no nails to put the Ark together, just logs, tar (??? or was this syrup from trees) and wooden hammers and wooden spikes. But its the size of a Ocean liner and enclosed and floated the Ocean in a huge flood like Posidon Adventure. All the animals 2 by 2 travel from around the world to get there: polar bears, lions and tigers. Of course those animals (bears and tigers and lions) were not known by the early Jews who wrote the Bible so they are not really mentioned in the Old Testament especially Genesis(Moses books) , the movie screenwriter added those in 1966. The Genesis writers didnt know there were sexless animals either. (Didnt see the bugs loaded although I am sure Noah had fleas after the trip LOL)

Then watch the birds and the bears and lions and tigers all living together on the Ark. He fed the cats the milk from the other animals, imagine feeding a hungry grown tiger milk in an Ark for 100 days, meow!!!.

Why isnt this taught in science class??? Darwinists are scared kids will realize this kills Darwinism LOL


One thing I do understand of all things worthy of understanding is that with God, all things are possible.

This reminds me of watching some TV show...discovery, nat. geo. animal planet, one of those and they were showing some bizarre thing like a lion protecting a baby hyena...a grown elephant protecting an abandoned lion cub or something weird because maternal instinct kicked in, and I’ve seen more than one unusual thing like this that really shouldn’t happen in nature and yet there it is.

If God wanted his people to build an ark and survive a global flood, I trust that He’s most certainly capable of doing it.

I also understand there are many things in this world that are simply never going to be understood on a human level.

Like why liberals can’t see evolution is the liberal position for instance.


25 posted on 08/20/2009 2:43:04 PM PDT by tpanther (Science was, is and will forever be a small subset of God's creation.)
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To: tpanther
Have you noticed how Free Republic closet liberals are always talking about the Public Schools and are so very worried about the integrity of the the Big Government Public Schools?

They all bow before the revamped NEA, centralized leftist controlled Big Government Public Schools.

These closet Free Republic liberals sound exactly like their radical comrades at the leftist blogs.

Same enemies, same targets for attack, same revisionist view of American history and religious culture.

26 posted on 08/20/2009 3:05:15 PM PDT by Old Landmarks (No fear of man, none!)
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To: stanz; GodGunsGuts

YEAH!!! Another Evilussionist I haven’t run into yet!

Love the tag line! Shows you know your enemy... we all believe in a flat-earth, you know.

Idgit.


27 posted on 08/20/2009 4:13:07 PM PDT by Gordon Greene (www.fracturedrepublic.com - Jesus said, "I am THE way, THE truth and THE life." Any questions?)
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To: sickoflibs; GodGunsGuts; colorado tanker; stanz; Alamo-Girl; <1/1,000,000th%
The contention of my post was that Darwinists should join mainstream science instead of usually dismissing alternatives by stamping them with religious intent. As I said in my post, “Yet good theologians of desert religions would say a god hedged in by observation, measurement, experiment, and computation ends up equivalent to the Golden Calf the Israelites constructed in the Wilderness”.

If someone is determined to prove god by disproving evolution, I think the best they could end up with is theorizing a ‘watchmaker god” from a dimension beyond the eleven of String Theory.

28 posted on 08/20/2009 5:17:23 PM PDT by Retain Mike
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To: sickoflibs
Thank you for sharing your views.
29 posted on 08/20/2009 8:56:28 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Retain Mike
Thank you for sharing your insights!

Truly, man is not the measure of God.

30 posted on 08/20/2009 8:58:28 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: GodGunsGuts

Horizontal gene transfer among bacteria does not refute the Theory of Evolution.

Maybe you should actually study bacterial plasmids....it’s a pretty cool concept.


31 posted on 08/21/2009 5:08:56 AM PDT by ElectricStrawberry (Didja know that Man walked with T. rex within the last 4,351 years?)
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Yes GGG- dontchaknow that lateral or horizontal gene tranfere between the same KINDS doesn’t infact show design? Everyone knows that you can just plop any old info from one species into another and have it evovle beyond your wildest dreams- ALL the tests of hte past have proven that dontchaknow? Pffffft- who needs to concern themselves with hte idea of species specific informaiton when horizontal gene transfer happens all the time between non related species? There’s reams of evidence pointing to it happening, We’ve just misp[laced the evidence- but fret not, we’ll find it again... someday- Oh, and forget hte fact that when arifically, and unatrually maniplated, horizontally transfered genes between dissimilar species gets weeded out in the next generation because the species specific info in the species artifically manipulated prevents it from being passed along because it was an assault and invasion on the manipulated species i nthe first place- once again showing that design is very species specific ie: DESIGNED

And everyone also knows there was just reams of free floating around just waitign to be transfered to disimilar species because information just happen to eternally exist- awaiting someplace to settle down and work it’s nature violating magic


32 posted on 08/21/2009 7:35:18 AM PDT by CottShop (Scientific belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge)
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To: Old Landmarks
Closet liberals at FR? Heaven forfend ~

Look, FR is an open forum. Still, it has its limits. So far I haven't seen any of our closet liberals trying to protect the public schools. On the other hand I've seen very conservative posters arguing on behalf of local control of every aspect of the public schools.

33 posted on 08/21/2009 11:04:41 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: CottShop

Hmm? I think you are taking both sides of the debate here. Use more punctuation or something.


34 posted on 08/21/2009 11:18:34 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah
So far I haven't seen any of our closet liberals trying to protect the public schools.

Then either you favor the Big Government Centralized leftist Public School system, or you haven't been paying attention.

The Big Centralized Government top-down leftist control of the Public School is big government at its very worst, which is why liberals love it so much and are fixated on it.

On the other hand, Ronald Reagan wanted to completely shut down the Department of Education.

35 posted on 08/21/2009 11:31:51 AM PDT by Old Landmarks (No fear of man, none!)
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To: Old Landmarks

Don’t you see that total local control is the very antithesis of “big government central control”?

The issue around FR is how to get back “local control” ~


36 posted on 08/21/2009 11:40:41 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah

no i was being sarcastic towards those hwo defend macroevolution


37 posted on 08/21/2009 11:49:10 AM PDT by CottShop (Scientific belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge)
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To: muawiyah
I completey agree with you about local control, if we are to continue to have Government Schools. The problem is that the liberal activist courts get involved and liberals from 'non-local' areas get involved to stifle local control, because they know their monopoly is at stake.

They want their secular progressive world view taught to other people's children, knowing the indoctrination has steadily lead to furthering their secular and their religious liberalism.

My comment has to do with a loud few on Free Republic who are social liberals who use a claim of libertarian principles to justify their social liberalism, at the same time they seem to use the Public school as their beloved trump card on many threads.

They should be more honest about their liberalism, instead they play a con game.

38 posted on 08/21/2009 11:50:29 AM PDT by Old Landmarks (No fear of man, none!)
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To: Old Landmarks
Have you noticed how Free Republic closet liberals are always talking about the Public Schools and are so very worried about the integrity of the the Big Government Public Schools?

They all bow before the revamped NEA, centralized leftist controlled Big Government Public Schools.

These closet Free Republic liberals sound exactly like their radical comrades at the leftist blogs.

Same enemies, same targets for attack, same revisionist view of American history and religious culture.

Oh yes of course. One glance at DU or DC and you can't help but see they're the exact same godless liberals.

Moreover, JR has been plain about this site and it's clear to a 4 year old evolution is the liberal position, every bit as man made global warming.

What really blows my mind though is they pretend they don't stick out like humongous sore thumbs on here!!!

39 posted on 08/21/2009 1:40:57 PM PDT by tpanther (Science was, is and will forever be a small subset of God's creation.)
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To: Gordon Greene
YEAH!!! Another Evilussionist I haven’t run into yet!

Love the tag line! Shows you know your enemy... we all believe in a flat-earth, you know.

Idgit.

LOL!

Speaking of taglines, I was thinking of going with: "evolution requires courts to back it up, can't tolerate dissent and is obviously the position of all liberals".

...but decided in the end to go with the one I have now instead.

40 posted on 08/21/2009 1:49:42 PM PDT by tpanther (Science was, is and will forever be a small subset of God's creation.)
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