Posted on 09/21/2009 7:39:20 PM PDT by GodGunsGuts
And you didn’t explain the remark about guilt.
Oh yeah, people who judge others that they know nothing about ALWAYS strike a nerve with me, no matter who is the victim. It’s the epitome of socialist/collectivist/self-righteous thinking.
I have yet to mention anything about your character except what you displayed directly to/about me. But you started off with a parade of judgments. I’m of the opinion that you act in a very un-Christian-like manner, at least to me and you keep proving it over and over.
I’ll ask again: What are your credentials for understanding scripture?
Ok, there’s the passages. Now demonstrate your as-yet-uncredentialed knowledge of said scriptures and how this means that you won’t be judged merely by accepting Christ. Don’t just quote it to me - I can read it myself. Tell me how it proves your point.
It just says you are saved by grace through faith, not necessarily by deeds alone. But if you have all the faith in the world and commit sins such as acting as God’s hand of judgment, you cannot achieve the Kingdom of Heaven without knowing how you have wronged the Lord. You seem incapable of recognizing your own sins and limitations.
What is required in your mind?
You entered this thread by criticizing Carrie Prejean, saying she couldn't be a Christian and have a boob job.
You are the judgmental creep seeking whom you may devour. Gee I think I have heard of someone like that somewhere.
AMEN. I want to associate myself with this comment as I say this all the time. It explains how evolutionists can never understand creationists and WILL NEVER find the answers they are looking for because they have excluded, from the beginning, the answer they seek.
I want to know your credentials. Something like: 25 years of education in scriptural context by scholars who can trace their training back to hagiography of the ancient books and writings. Education by members of your Church who know of the discussions of the biblical commission (or commissions, I can’t remember the history now). I’m not asking for names, ‘cause that would be personal info that you should keep personal. Just credentials.
Carrie Prejean? What!?! Are you talking about that beauty contest girl? Why would I comment on her if I’m not even sure who she is??? If she’s who I think you’re talking about, she’s pretty and she’s a Christian or something and had some gay judge treat her bad at a beauty contest or something. Did she have a boob job? I wouldn’t pass judgment on someone for anything so trivial. If she thought it made her look nice and she did - great! There’s nothing un-Christian about boob jobs, but there’s claiming that you’re the hand of judgment for God is immoral beyond words.
Now, I have not called you any names. If I said you’re a hypocrite, that’s because you have been hypocritical. Devour someone? I don’t care what you or anyone else does as long as it doesn’t harm me or mine. But don’t expect to not be called on your statements when you claim that you can act for the mind of God.
And insinuating that I’m the devil or something? You are one of the most hypocritical “Christians”...no, I can’t call you that. It would be akin to blasphemy. No real Christian would do what you have done in these posts.
Silly me, I was having the same thoughts about you. Don't address the issues you brought to this thread, attack me instead. How do you propose to change hearts and minds with your scorched earth evangelism.
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Specifically the Bible eliminates works as the way to Salvation, but out of curiosity, just how many good works must I do to satisfy you?
Yes, silly you. I have no idea where you got the Carrie whats-her-name thing. I made no comment on her - I barely know who she is. And I didn’t attack you by pointing out your hypocrisy and aggrandizing. Pointing out the truth is not an attack.
Tell me what issues I didn’t address. You, by the way, still haven’t answered the credentials question.
And I’m not trying to change any hearts and minds. Most people’s hearts and minds are just fine. Not perfect, but I don’t know how to make them so other than to help them with whatever they ask. I just don’t like it when people use religion against other people. Whatever good comes from one’s religion is a sacred empowerment by God and is not to be used as a weapon. That’s what you did by passing judgments off on someone you know nothing about.
The number of good works that you do is meaningless if you choose freely, as you do, to put yourself in the position of arbiter for the judgment of God. You are claiming a power for yourself that the Lord did not grant to you. You tell me how you would answer to God if He asked you: “What gave you the right to put forward your judgment of your fellow man as if it was that of the Lord?” How would you answer Him?
I don’t know what you do with the rest of your life/time. What you have done to me is to place yourself in the position of judge of my character towards all others of faith based on an argument that you have little knowledge of. I CAN pass judgment on you for this act alone, but only so far as to see you have acted in a manner that puts up as someone who believes they can speak for the Lord. I can’t see any way to claim that this is not un-Christian-like behavior.
I don’t think you actually read my posts. You seem to just react to some bizarre false Christian nerve that gets pinged. God gave you more of a mind than that.
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Specifically the Bible eliminates works as the way to Salvation, but out of curiosity, just how many good works must I do to satisfy you?
I didn’t ignore the question. I answered it. You don’t read my posts. I said the following:
“The number of good works that you do is meaningless if you choose freely, as you do, to put yourself in the position of arbiter for the judgment of God.” Not to mention that you don’t have to satisfy me. You have to satisfy God.
Now, stop ducking and have the guts to answer my question: What are your credentials for understanding scripture?
I ask again, what credentials are required? You seem to place a great deal of importance on that. My question is why?
Of the people we know for sure Jesus saved, I don't think He once asked the saved, what their credentials were.
Of course you being overly qualified because you say so, surely you can search out a few of those who had to present credentials before they were saved.
What credentials are required? Anything that shows that you have been schooled in, or at least schooled by people who have expertise in all manner of ancient holy scripture. There are legions of these scholars in the Vatican, maybe even more who are experts in the Torah, Islamic scholars from Mecca, etc. These are people who have been passed the knowledge through generations that started with the authors of those books themselves. To seriously understand the Bible or any of the ancient Holy Books, you have to have at least been schooled by scholars who can trace their knowledge to it’s origins. You can’t just pick up a Bible, pray that God will help you get it, and understand it’s vast complexity. Charles Manson and Hitler did that, and I’m pretty sure they were wrong.
As an example of what is needed to hope to understand part of the Bible, lets pick the most misinterpreted book of all, Revelation. It’s written in the Apocalyptic style of the day using Hebrew letter/number combinations and is likely deliberately confusing so that the Romans couldn’t understand it. That way they didn’t know that Ceasar Nero’s name is 666 in Hebrew. It’s similar in context and style to the Book of Enoch or the Sibylline Oracles.
Now, don’t misunderstand me. You don’t need scriptural credentials to be saved. You don’t need just good works. But you can be sure that if you deliberately perform works contrary to the divinity of God (i.e. acting as His arbiter of others salvation worthiness) you have sinned. And until you are sorry for those, or any other sins, and understand why they have wronged the Lord’s Grace, then you have rejected Christ. And if you reject Christ, you cannot be saved.
I place importance on credentials for understanding scripture because if you don’t understand it’s subtle power, you will misuse that power and employ it as a weapon for your own interests. That is what you have done throughout this discussion.
I don’t want you or anyone else to reject Christ, and I’m trying to explain to you that it’s not as simple as saying you believe and accept Him. You have to know when you’re actually “walking the walk” and not just winding down a road that looks promising but leads to the ruin of the soul.
John 3:16 is enough.
If it isn't then nothing is enough.
Catholic? Where’d you get that idea? Symptoms of guilt are: Insulting people that have different views than you, passing judgments on people you know nothing about, calling people names, and making group judgments (as you did to the Catholics in your post) etc. Generally done by people who feel inadequate and guilty for not having the intelligence to have an honest debate.
Quoting John can be done by anyone. Bin Laden even does it - that doesn’t make you understand it. But you worry me. You seem completely incapable of understanding what I ask you and you seem hell bent on proving that you’re holier than me. This is indicative of a very low level of comprehension. That makes one easy to manipulate by smarter people who promise some power in return for allegiance.
Well I am certainly not being manipulated by you.
You are called to preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ, but you are not called to preach your interpretation of what ones behavior should be.
How do you think you spread the Gospel on threads lie this? You don't in my opinion.
Any one can quote John 3:16, then you ask if I understand it. Yes I do, but apparently you do not.
If I were not Saved by Grace, what in your posts do you believe would have convinced me to accept Jesus Christ as my Savior?
I think you need to examine your motives. Now please move on with your message, I am sure you will be able to demean and insult most other Christians on this thread. Just omit me from your screeds.
I never said you were manipulated by me. But without understanding the depth of language, one can be manipulated by anything that “sounds good” to them.
I don’t spread the Gospel of Christ? I’ve tried from the start of this thread to point out that the Bible is a very deep set of books that can only hope to be somewhat understood by understanding the styles and contexts of the scripture of the day. I’ve pointed out some of the ways that one can try to gain such ability. I expect that people should try to understand the Bible, Koran, Torah, whatever by actual scholarship, not just picking them up and reciting them.
Oh, saying you understand John 3:16 means you understand it - yeah, right. If I give you a book on quantum physics, I’ll bet you could read it. That wouldn’t make you understand it. You need a lot of training to understand it’s meaning.
If anyone was insulted by these posts, I suppose it would be Catholics, as you seem to despise them.
My motives are to get people to truly understand the Bible, and stop the evil-beyond-words practice of using it against people. If you truly want to be saved, you need a first to take a humility pill and realize that God and God alone is the judge of others. You need to understand that you, me, or anyone cannot claim to know the entire truth of the Bible as it is beyond our comprehension. You need to practice the word of Christ and love your fellow humans instead of despising them, regardless of whether they are Muslim, Jewish, Buddhist, kind, evil, greedy, etc.
What you think of me is irrelevant. What you do to with the Bible is a sin, because you know it’s wrong if you actually read the Bible. But you continue this practice in full knowledge of your sin. By doing so, you reject Christ. If you knowingly reject Christ, then you cannot be saved.
OK since you ignored my request to exclude me from your nonsense, here is why I understand John 3:16. The Bible is to be Spiritually discerned. If not it is reduced to intellectual arguments. The Bible is replete with examples of intellectuals such as yourself missing the point.
You know, like, God made the foolish to confound the wise.
Having said that there is great history in the Bible, there are great mysteries as well. I will let you worry about the mysteries, I will worry about the parts I understand all too well.
You understand nothing about Jesus if you say that. Yes He is, but He made a way for me to escape the wrath of God, He prepared a Sacrifice for me and all sinners, we must accept that, or live up to the Law, you pick.
Now take your hate filled commentary and keep it to yourself.
Because God is God, He can change His mind and say gotcha, but my faith lies in the Sacrifice He prepared from the foundation of the world.
One thing I’ll say for you is that you’re a perfect liberal. Call someone a creep, make judgments about entire religions, false accusations (what was up with that Carrie whats-her-name thing?). You have an escape from God’s judgment because you read something - uh, huh. He won’t make you take responsibility for your misdeeds or anything. Stick everyone into groups that you think are less pious than you. Make a couple scriptural quotes like Hillary Clinton or Obama.
And then say someone else is hateful.
Yep, perfect anti-Christian, liberal...
I have been a Conservative for 60 years, and a Christian probably, for more years than you have been alive.
Now I am going to ask nicely one more time. Go away.
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