Posted on 10/14/2009 8:21:07 AM PDT by GodGunsGuts
I think he is either short sighted or ignorant regarding philosophy to (seemingly) go so exclusively w/ Hobbs.
I agree with the scripture. Hodge MAY be right but that isn’t certain because he can’t judge Myers heart. Myers may hate Christians for another reason. That is why I said that it sounded more like opinion. The Bible is clear that some people wont believe in God.
Psalm 14
1The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Hey, Prof. Myers simply let the cat out of the bag.
This view is utilized, sometimes altered for public consumption, but that’s how it is.
Since atheists do not believe in God, it’s highly unlikely that they would adhere to something as strict to maintain as human kindness. No offense intended, of course.
Sure, they would be protective and proud of their OWN CHILDREN, but since atheists almost overwhelmingly vote democrat and think socialisms a good idea and, in general, are just trying to deny the judge, they would also disown their own children if the children somehow disappointed them.
No kidding, I knew an atheist guy once who said he would NEVER EVER forgive ANY of his children if they told him to his face that they hated him. What? He’s not going to be able to forgive one foolish moment? This same guy, in prior conversations, told me there’s no such thing as free choice (which I consider to be choice).
You tell me what conclusions I should draw and we’ll talk more.
Read the Bible verses the author referenced.
No stock tips though. LOL!
> I didn’t intend to offend you, I just wanted to give my opinion on the subject.
I wasn’t offended. But am resolute in defense of my morality (not to be confused with anti-Christianity). You’ll notice I never used ‘christian’ in reference to those I am in disagreement with. The Christians in my life are some of the best people I know. The Christian religionists, not so much.
LOL! Exactly. The funny thing that I see in society to day is this. Christians have a high moral standard and they don’t always live up to it because they are still human. Liberals have no moral standard and pretty much can do whatever they want. Of course Liberals judge Christians when the Christians fail to live up to the standards they have set for themselves. Talk about twisted logic. We aren’t perfect but that is the goal!
No offense intended but you’re morality is only as strong as your backbone because you are not guided by anything stronger. Even with a backbone of steel, your “morality” is only self-indulgent solipsism.
Look, I know that atheists are bright enough to conjure up a good verbal defense of themselves and that they’re not just going to go around raping and murdering children (although murderers are atheists) but in the end, the morality of an atheist is only skin deep.
Who are some of your favorite philosophers?
And some who thump their Bibles the loudest have the least Christian behavior - even when it doesn't hurt. I ascribe it to insecurity.
Either how canst thou say to thy brother, Brother, let me pull out the mote that is in thine eye, when thou thyself beholdest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, cast out first the beam out of thine own eye, and then shalt thou see clearly to pull out the mote that is in thy brother's eye. (Luke 6:42)
Always one of my favorite quotes.
“A person who is exhibiting these characteristics of Christ likeness is not a true Christian.
Oops, that should read “A person who is NOT exhibiting these characteristics of Christ likeness is not a true Christian.”
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed.
The killer IS constrained in the kill, because none of us want to die at his hand. The thief is constrained in his rip off, because all of us want to retain our lawfully acquired property. The rapist is constrained in his attacks, because none of us want to be raped or have our near and dear ones raped.
There are excellent reasons for morality that go beyond religious belief. It's simply practical.
First, don't conflate atheists and agnostics. The atheist proclaims "There is no God" while the agnostic says "I don't know". Clear difference.
Second, there are excellent reasons for morality whether you believe in God or not - namely, self interest.
If you are a rapist, thief or murderer people won't like you. They won't treat you well. They'll feel perfectly justified in doing nasty things to you.
Who wants to live like that?
Romans 1:21
Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22Professing themselves to be wise, they became FOOLS,
Psalm 14:1
The FOOL hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Why did they become fools after they didn’t glorify God. Because their hearts were darkened and they no longer believed in God.
We may just be playing semantics here.
“Second, there are excellent reasons for morality whether you believe in God or not - namely, self interest”
That isn’t morality. Self interests may cause you to bend your ways to fit a moral code but that isn’t morality itself. If the only way to distinguish between good and evil is what I will gain or lose, then anything that benefits me is good as long as I don’t get caught.
Excellent discussion on this thread. Thanks for the post and the ping to it!
I believe the title of that book is "The Epistle of the Apostle Paul to the Romans I".
So we are to take the word of a guy who never met Jesus in the flesh, and who wrote the book many years after Jesus' death, over the words of Christ Himself ?
Nah, I ain't buyin' that one.
“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed.”
You missed the whole point of this paragraph. The rights come from the Creator. The governed only give powers to the government to SECURE these rights for them.
> No offense intended but you’re morality is only as strong as your backbone because you are not guided by anything stronger. Even with a backbone of steel, your “morality” is only self-indulgent solipsism.
I define my morality, not you bub. And ‘self-indulgent solipsism’ aint it.
> Look, I know that atheists are bright enough to conjure up a good verbal defense of themselves and that they’re not just going to go around raping and murdering children (although murderers are atheists) but in the end, the morality of an atheist is only skin deep.
In my experience, the quantity/quality of a person’s moral behavior is rarely tied to their professed religious convictions. As for their moral convictions, these are generally meaningless.
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