Skip to comments.
Volcanic origin of proteins?
The Scientist ^
| 21st March 2011
| Hannah Waters
Posted on 03/23/2011 1:51:59 AM PDT by AdmSmith
click here to read article
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20, 21-40, 41-60, 61-63 next last
To: allmendream
Similarly, there is no information in DNA absent a ribosome and tRNAs that can decode and translate an otherwise meaningless sequence of nucleic acids into a functional sequence of amino acids.So you claim that the plate on voyager presently lost the information on it. Strange view.
41
posted on
03/25/2011 1:20:10 AM PDT
by
AndrewC
To: tacticalogic
It is a mental construct, and it is "information" within any mind that can comprehend it and use it to make that construction. Before that happened, it was not "information". So you too are saying that the plate on voyager presently contains no information?
42
posted on
03/25/2011 1:25:04 AM PDT
by
AndrewC
To: tacticalogic
What is the significance of you never having observed your great-grandfather?It has to do with your claim "The mendacity is in the implication that it must have been some "mind" external to the observer."
43
posted on
03/25/2011 1:33:07 AM PDT
by
AndrewC
To: AndrewC
So you too are saying that the plate on voyager presently contains no information? And you are saying the plate has a mind.
To: AndrewC
It has to do with your claim "The mendacity is in the implication that it must have been some "mind" external to the observer." In that case, adding more carbon will make the modulus turn purple.
To: LiteKeeper
There is only one possible explanation for this "codon lexicon" - intelligence; a mind. Meaning is an abstraction that cannot be a property of the "stuff" which the nucleotides are made of...it is not the product of chemical activity, nor of the physics...it can only come from a mind. How do we know it cannot be a property of the "stuff"?
To: tacticalogic
And you are saying the plate has a mind. No, but it certainly contains information in spite of your convoluted definitions.
47
posted on
03/25/2011 3:39:42 AM PDT
by
AndrewC
To: AndrewC
No, but it certainly contains information in spite of your convoluted definitions. What's the matter. Don't you like having words put in you mouth? Don't want, don't start.
To: tacticalogic
In that case, adding more carbon will make the modulus turn purpleJFilko!
49
posted on
03/25/2011 3:41:16 AM PDT
by
AndrewC
To: AndrewC
To: tacticalogic
What's the matter. Don't you like having words put in you mouth? Don't want, don't start. Well, you are the one with the dizzying definitions of information. And of course, you never put words in peoples mouths, "The mendacity is in the implication that it must have been some "mind" external to the observer."
51
posted on
03/25/2011 3:46:06 AM PDT
by
AndrewC
To: AndrewC
Well, you are the one with the dizzying definitions of information. I submitted only that it is an abstraction. I'm sorry you found that concept "dizzying".
To: tacticalogic
I submitted only that it is an abstraction.No you also stated this - "Information without data is dogma." and this "Without a mind to organize and analyze it, it's just data." In fact, data is by definition information. Look it up.
53
posted on
03/25/2011 4:06:18 AM PDT
by
AndrewC
To: AndrewC
No you also stated this - "Information without data is dogma." and this "Without a mind to organize and analyze it, it's just data." In fact, data is by definition information. Look it up. There are multiple definitions of "information" in the dictionary. In some contexts information and data are considered synonymous.
I submit that simply having a random collection of unorganized and unlabeled data does not provide information. It would be like running a phone book through a shredder. All the data is still there, but the organization and structure is lost. Until that structure and orgaization is restored, it arguably provides no information.
Do you find that unreasonable?
To: AndrewC
It is only a plate unless there is a mind that can decipher the etching on the plate as useful information. The plate did not “gain” or “lose” information - it is just an etched plate to anything without a mind to translate the two dimensional etchings into a three dimensional image of the creatures that sent the probe.
Similarly DNA is just a molecule absent ribosomes and tRNA’s that can decipher the molecule and translate it into a useful protein.
If the DNA for the enzymes that charged the tRNA’s with amino acids was changed, the entire “language” of what the DNA “meant” would change.
55
posted on
03/25/2011 5:32:14 AM PDT
by
allmendream
(Tea Party did not send the GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism.)
To: allmendream
It is only a plate unless there is a mind that can decipher the etching on the plate as useful information. The plate did not gain or lose information - it is just an etched plate to anything without a mind to translate the two dimensional etchings into a three dimensional image of the creatures that sent the probe.Oh come on now, that is ridiculous. The dictionary contains information despite being unread. You may wish otherwise, but that is a fact. You conflate communication with information.
56
posted on
03/25/2011 9:24:59 AM PDT
by
AndrewC
To: AndrewC
Information is only information in a context where a message is understandable in a common language.
A dictionary of a language that nobody can read anymore contains no information until you give it to someone who can read it.
Similarly DNA is written in a “language” that makes no sense at all outside the context of a ribosome and tRNA “translation key”.
If the “language” of the “translation key” were changed, the “information” would be changed. Thus there IS no unchangeable unambiguous “information” outside a context that gives it meaning.
57
posted on
03/25/2011 9:42:07 AM PDT
by
allmendream
(Tea Party did not send the GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism.)
To: allmendream
Thus there IS no unchangeable unambiguous information outside a context that gives it meaning.So information is whatever one makes up!? Sounds like a Darwinist.
58
posted on
03/25/2011 10:05:01 AM PDT
by
AndrewC
To: AndrewC
No “information” only actually informs if it makes sense.
No sense being needed, everything being predicated upon nonsense - sounds EXACTLY like a Creationist.
59
posted on
03/25/2011 10:29:22 AM PDT
by
allmendream
(Tea Party did not send the GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism.)
To: tacticalogic
Because an item of "stuff" has no awareness...let alone awareness of other "stuff". Complex "stuff", like living organisms, does not have the ability to self-organize into complex systems requiring interaction and coordination.
Compare a lump of silver ore and a silver dollar. There is no "natural" process, whether chemical or physical, where that lump could transform from the ore to the coin.
ATPsynthase is a complex nano-machine which can not self organize through chemical reactions (and by the way, ATP is required to produce the energy for all other processes to occur...it has to be there from the start)
Blood clotting is a complex process requiring 13 dormant proteins to activate in a cascade, one at a time, to clot blood. What chemical process would store 3, 5, 7, 10, 12 proteins until the 13th "evolved", cause those 13 proteins to lie dormant until required, and then shut off the process before your body turned into one giant blood clot? That requires intricate timing and control mechanisms which, again, cannot be attributed to chemical processes.
Hence, the information to do all of this must come from somewhere (perhaps SomeOne) apart from the processes...an intelligence of great magnitude.
Bottom Line: information cannot be a property of "stuff"
60
posted on
03/25/2011 12:24:31 PM PDT
by
LiteKeeper
("Psalm 109:8")
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20, 21-40, 41-60, 61-63 next last
Disclaimer:
Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual
posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its
management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the
exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson