Posted on 01/24/2014 2:36:50 PM PST by EDINVA
Babies have, indeed, been born of brain-dead mothers, but these are babies that are past or very near the point of viability, meaning that they could survive outside the womb at the time of the mother’s death.
In this case, they are trying to use a decaying body as an incubator for a child who was at only 14 weeks when the mother died and had no medical chance of developing to viability. Grotesque, and, from a medical viewpoint, impossible.
I actually had a conversation with my doctor about this case yesterday. My doctor is an associate with those involved with the case and is appalled that the law has been applied in this way.
FWIW, I am solidly pro-life, even in the case of rape or incest. In this case, respect for life means letting nature takes its course and letting these sweet souls go to their Maker. Perhaps they already have.
Some of the comments about this case are truly beyond the pale and unworthy of FR or good conservative thought. Both parents of this doomed child were paramedics. Dad found the mother after her stroke and was able to keep her alive until 911 got there. What a nightmare, in all respects, for this good family.
I tend to agree, this is one case where Pro-Lifers hurt their cause.
There is no one in the immediate family who wants to keep the mother alive, unlike in the Schiavo case.
I think doctor testimony combined with the family’s wishes should take precedence there.....It’s a sad story all around....The family has suffered enough, without having the additional pain of having invective heaped upon them by those who will never be in their shoes.
I am very pro-life, but this case is not the ‘hill to die on.’
BookMark
A healthy baby ...”that did without oxygen for over an hour” and whose mother didn’t have a functioning brain to deliver the hormones necessary for proper development... there was too much damage before she was put on life support and she is deteriorating now and has been. .... the baby had already suffered significant damage due to being without oxygen at the start of this event.....
Am disappointed you’re response included that “your perspective had been salted by the oligarchical powers.” Surprisingly so.
The glandular system of the body operates on a feedback process. Your quote implies higher brain function is necessary for the glandular processes to function. IF the woman’s brainstem were dead, then the glandular system would cease to function. But if the brainstem is dead then things like dopamine have to be added to the body to get organs to function for a short time. I am convinced this woman’s brainstem was not ‘dead’, not decaying. If you have data otherwise please share it.
From Court Documents:
On November 26, 2013, around 2:00 a.m., Erick awoke to find Marlise
unconscious on the parties’ kitchen floor. Marlise was approximately 14 weeks pregnant with the parties’ second child.
. Ms. Munoz was pregnant at 14 weeks gestation at
that time. The unborn child will, at the time of the hearing, be at 22 weeks and 5 days. .....Despite such treatment, Ms. Munoz met the clinical criteria for brain death on November 28, 2013
http://thaddeuspope.com/images/Munoz_v._JPS_Jan_2014_.pdf
Additionally....
“Hospital lawyers agreed” in court documents that Munoz’s wife did meet the criteria for brain death and that the fetus was no longer viable.
and again....
‘The hospital’ and the Munoz family ‘agreed’ on crucial facts listed in a court document:
that Marlise Munoz, 33, had “met the clinical criteria for brain death since November 28”
I am sorry that you need to believe the husband's legal team version.. I will not trouble you further.
if the father prevails to kill his child I will pray just this. And to all the aborted babies that are murdered on a daily basis.
MHGinTN........I am not the hospital nor the Physician...but if you read the PDF’s you will note that the Hospital and the Doctors did state and ‘agreed’ she was brain dead..which included the brain stem.
The details if or not what they suspect is a blood clot which killed her cannot be confirmed until an autopsy, as you know. But according to the hospital it appears it was a blood clot.
Much of the details will not be fully available until the case is closed, as you know...and autopsy’s done... Court documents, comments by the family and hospital to news agencies etc. are the best we have to determine how this case has gone.
I just do not believe the child had much chance if any at 14 weeks and having gone without oxygen......remember her body was blue before they arrived at the hospital...so how long the baby went without oxygen is unknown. Time lines from the time her husband checked on her, because their other son continued to cry after she went to get food for him, too isn’t known that I’ve seen thus far.
If you follow the story throughout the news agencies, court hearings etc. you see that there wasn’t a question that she was dead or not....it was agreed so by family members, hospital and even her parents that she was dead.
These two were EMT people so the Dr’s certainly could use any type of medical jargon and they would have understood. Her husband had also seen people die, dead, and in between to know what that looked like.
The issue has been the law....and even those ‘who wrote the law’ said that it was not intended to be used to “incubate” an unborn child in a corpse, which is what she has been since Nov. 28th.
The fact all this is such an issue tells me that although we can be grateful for life support progress...there comes a time where there’s a line that can be crossed God din’t intend to be.
I saw my brother swell up with fluid they could not drain off fast enough ...until you couldn’t recognize him. His wife was unwilling to accept they had done all they could to help him. I think all who have witnessed life support efforts, seen up front and personal, have their stories which affect how they see life and death.
There comes that time when it’s no longer supporting life...and not allowing death to follow it’s end.
PS
BTW...the information from court Documents came from both the Hospital Attorneys and the Families attorney’s.....again...they all agreed she was dead.
...”I am sorry that you need to believe the husband’s legal team version..”...
You’ve wrongly assumed the information provided from was from the husbands legal team it comes also from the Hospitals legal team. I read both sides of the court documents. Though they disagreed on “the law” it was not an issue if she was dead or not from the get go.
Has the child in the womb grown ANY since the mother's collapse? ... the child was 14 weeks old at time of the mother's collapse and 22+weeks at time of the judges decision; has the child grown any during that eight weeks?
I will ask this...before i answer your question...
God” allowed this woman to suffer an embolism while pregnant.... Did His “plan” really involve her being on life support to sustain the fetus for 6 months inside a deceased mother’s body when He could have delayed that long enough for the child to be delivered?
Have you ever stopped to consider that someone who is relegated to reacting to the acts of another is thereby lessened to a role determined by the other? And now I'm wondering why you've seen fit to try and change the focus in order to shift rrsponsibility to God.
.....This is taking Medicine way out of the boundaries it was intended... to that of experimentation and physical abuse of the mother and the child.....as well as the mental and emotional abuse of the family forced to watch someone they have loved decompose and go into rigamortus.......Not to mention the medical staff inserting tubes and various other medical procedures to a decomposing body......
The baby and mom should have been allowed to go to God when this happened....The entire family supported that as did the Doctors until one man brought a Texas Law (state) into the equation which was misapplied to this situation.
I will not sanction the possibility that in the future people might use dead bodies to incubate babies! They are already using the sperm of dead men so this is not far fetched by any means.
Please, do not feel compelled respond further. I do not accept the tone of your ... rant. I will not communicate with you further.
Nothing happens without God’s awareness and or His intervention should HE choose to do so. We do live in a fallen world but it is certainly not beyond His hand to intervene to change the outcome.... He is either Sovereign or not. This child is His before it’s anyone else’s and never intended to be “abused” as is happening in this mothers dead body. What is happening to this child was a decision made by the state not the family. The child and Mother should have been allowed to go with Him as the family, Doctors and Medical team had agreed on to begin with..
Understood...and sorry that your compulsion has led you to draw the conclusion my post was a rant...it was not a rant..it was an answer to your question and how I see this situation. However, I will comply and not expect further communication from you on this thread.
It gives me some comfort. Many would cry out against God for allowing the atrocity of abortion to go on. I turn to parts of the Bible that caused me similar concern until my eyes were opened to His unchanging goodness. I used to wonder at a God who would punish David (for adultery/ensuring Uriah was killed) by taking his young son from him. I later realized that the son was not being punished through death - he was being lifted into God's Hole presence without the trials and tribulations of the world that we all suffer.
In abortion, it is the hearts and souls of those who participate in the dirty deed that suffer - the children are getting a fast-track to their Father in Heaven. It helps my heart endure the pain of a people who have devolved to the point where abortion is something that many consider a "holy right".
He will return to defeat the Evil One and those who follow the evil path. Until then, we can carry His Holy Word to those who need to hear it.
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