Posted on 05/08/2022 10:52:54 AM PDT by marshmallow
You just don’t like facts. Besides, you think you can make me stop speaking truth?
One should always be wary of accepting truths from someone claiming they are speaking 'truth'.
Calling the darkness light, and the light darkness, does not make darkness light.
Both sides claimed the agreement requires the other side to do something first, and that they have not done it. For example, cease firing, and removing heavy artillery. This is a problem with the drafting, as the agreement is ambiguous enough to allow this interpretation. The agreement did not say who should do what first, or what penalty if any shall accrue when they don’t do it.
In either case, despite having signed the agreement, the then leader of rebel Donetsk Peoples Republic (DPR) Zakharchenko repeatedly said he would continue fighting anyway, and that he had 30,000 fighters ready to go, and that he would invade Mariupol city. He is dead now, having been assassinated by his own people, probably Putin wanted him gone because of his loose lips.
The agreement specifies that the OSCE shall monitor both sides. OSCE says Russian side repeatedly violates the agreement. Dozens of ceasefire violations by them happen everyday. Heavy artillery is seen where it is not supposed to be. And often Russians prevent OSCE from entering an area where they are violating the agreement. The agreement says foreign (IE Russian) troops, mercenaries must leave, but Russian side has Russian troops and Wagner Group mercenaries fighting there, (they have been captured occasionally), and Putin even admitted they are there.
It is obvious that Putin did not want this war to end, it is convenient way for him to constantly harass Ukraine,
Putin is to blame because he didn’t withdraw his troops from Ukraine and didn’t return the control over the border to Ukraine. Therefore Kiev cannot conduct any elections and anything else on the occupied territory. It is just a common sense.
The two entities seceded after Russian trentere,
It’s like Mexican troops entering New Mexico and then NM declaring they have seceded
Panie Janie, why don’t you reply to Varyouga post?
prior to 2014 the breakaway parties that started the insurrection had a negligible following in the polls. They only achieved traction because Putin poured in arms, mercenaries and false-flag military units to back them.
Before the violence, opinion polls suggested that around 25% of the population supported some kind of a split. Compared to, say, the numbers of Scots that want to split from England, or the number of Catalans that want to separate from Spain, this number is very low.
And that was asked in the context of a constitutional separation, so we can assume that an even smaller percentage support the violent insurrection.
Putin engineered the breakaway and sent in Russian special forces.
Read up on the Minsk 1 /2 accords. Signed by the Ukies, Russia, France Germany.
MINSK I PROTOCOL (1 September 2014)
https://peacemaker.un.org/sites/peacemaker.un.org/files/UA_140905_MinskCeasfire_en.pdf
Original official document in Russian only.
Annex I to the letter dated 24 February 2015 from the Permanent Representative of Ukraine to the United Nations addressed to the President of the Security Council[Original: Russian]
Protocol on the outcome of consultations of the Trilateral Contact Group on joint steps aimed at the implementation of the Peace Plan of the President of Ukraine, P. Poroshenko, and the initiatives of the President of the Russian Federation, V. Putin
Upon consideration and discussion of the proposals put forward by the participants of the consultations in Minsk on 1 September 2014, the Trilateral Contact Group, consisting of representatives of Ukraine, the Russian Federation and the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE), reached an understanding with respect to the need to implement the following steps:
1. Ensure the immediate bilateral cessation of the use of weapons.
2. Ensure monitoring and verification by OSCE of the regime of non-use of weapons.
3. Implement decentralization of power, including by enacting the Law of Ukraine on the interim status of local self-government in certain areas of the Donetsk and Luhansk regions (Law on Special Status).
4. Ensure permanent monitoring on the Ukrainian-Russian State border and verification by OSCE, along with the establishment of a security area in the border regions of Ukraine and the Russian Federation.
5. Immediately release all hostages and unlawfully detained persons.
6. Enact a law prohibiting the prosecution and punishment of persons in connection with the events that took place in certain areas of the Donetsk and Luhansk regions of Ukraine.
7. Continue an inclusive national dialogue.
8. Adopt measures aimed at improving the humanitarian situation in Donbass.
9. Ensure the holding of early local elections in accordance with the Law of Ukraine on the interim status of local self-government in certain areas of the Donetsk and Luhansk regions (Law on Special Status).
10. Remove unlawful military formations and military hardware, as well as militants and mercenaries, from the territory of Ukraine.
11. Adopt a programme for the economic revival of Donbass and the resumption of vital activity in the region.
12. Provide personal security guarantees for the participants of the consultations.
Participants of the Trilateral Contact Group:
(Signed) Heidi Tagliavini,
Ambassador(Signed) L. D. Kuchma,
Second President of Ukraine(Signed) M. Y. Zurabov,
Ambassador of the Russian Federation to Ukraine(Signed) A. W. Zakharchenko
(Signed) I. W. Plotnitski
- - - - - - - - - -
https://comw.org/pda/fulltext/UNSC-Res-2202-Minsk.pdf
The Minsk Agreement of 12 February 2015 (MINSK II) followed the Minsk Protocol of 5 September 2014 (MINSK I)
MINSK II AGREEMENT, 12 February 2015 (as endorsed at UN Security Council, 17 Feb 2015)
ANNEX IPackage of Measures for the Implementation of the Minsk Agreements
Minsk, 12 February 2015
1. Immediate and comprehensive ceasefire in certain areas of the Donetsk and Luhansk regions of Ukraine and its strict implementation as of 15 February 2015, 12 a.m. local time.
2. Withdrawal of all heavy weapons by both sides by equal distances in order to create a security zone of at least 50 km wide from each other for the artillery systems of calibre of 100 and more, a security zone of 70 km wide for MLRS and 140 km wide for MLRS “Tornado-S”, Uragan, Smerch and Tactical Missile Systems (Tochka, Tochka U):
— for the Ukrainian troops: from the de facto line of contact;
— for the armed formations from certain areas of the Donetsk and Luhansk regions of Ukraine : from the line of contact according to the Minsk Memorandum of Sept. 19th, 2014;
The withdrawal of the heavy weapons as specified above is to start on day 2 of the ceasefire at the latest and be completed within 14 days.
The process shall be facilitated by the OSCE and supported by the Trilateral Contact Group.
3. Ensure effective monitoring and verification of the ceasefire regime and the withdrawal of heavy weapons by the OSCE from day 1 of the withdrawal, using all technical equipment necessary, including satellites, drones, radar equipment, etc.
4. Launch a dialogue, on day 1 of the withdrawal, on modalities of local elections in accordance with Ukrainian legislation and the Law of Ukraine “On interim local self-government order in certain areas of the Donetsk and Luhansk regions” as well as on the future regime of these areas based on this law.
Adopt promptly, by no later than 30 days after the date of signing of this document a Resolution of the Parliament of Ukraine specifying the area enjoying a special regime, under the Law of Ukraine “On interim self-government order in certain areas of the Donetsk and Luhansk regions”, based on the line of the Minsk Memorandum of September 19, 2014.
5. Ensure pardon and amnesty by enacting the law prohibiting the prosecution and punishment of persons in connection with the events that took place in certain areas of the Donetsk and Luhansk regions of Ukraine.
6. Ensure release and exchange of all hostages and unlawfully detained persons, based on the principle “all for all”. This process is to be finished on the day 5 after the withdrawal at the latest.
7. Ensure safe access, delivery, storage, and distribution of humanitarian assistance to those in need, on the basis of an international mechanism.
8. Definition of modalities of full resumption of socioeconomic ties, including social transfers such as pension payments and other payments (incomes and revenues, timely payments of all utility bills, reinstating taxation within the legal framework of Ukraine).
To this end, Ukraine shall reinstate control of the segment of its banking system in the conflict-affected areas and possibly an international mechanism to facilitate such transfers shall be established.
9. Reinstatement of full control of the state border by the government of Ukraine throughout the conflict area, starting on day 1 after the local elections and ending after the comprehensive political settlement (local elections in certain areas of the Donetsk and Luhansk regions on the basis of the Law of Ukraine and constitutional reform) to be finalized by the end of 2015, provided that paragraph 11 has been implemented in consultation with and upon agreement by representatives of certain areas of the Donetsk and Luhansk regions in the framework of the Trilateral Contact Group.
10. Withdrawal of all foreign armed formations, military equipment, as well as mercenaries from the territory of Ukraine under monitoring of the OSCE. Disarmament of all illegal groups.
11. Carrying out constitutional reform in Ukraine with a new constitution entering into force by the end of 2015 providing for decentralization as a key element (including a reference to the specificities of certain areas in the Donetsk and Luhansk regions, agreed with the representatives of these areas), as well as adopting permanent legislation on the special status of certain areas of the Donetsk and Luhansk regions in line with measures as set out in the footnote until the end of 2015. [Note]
12. Based on the Law of Ukraine “On interim local self-government order in certain areas of the Donetsk and Luhansk regions”, questions related to local elections will be discussed and agreed upon with representatives of certain areas of the Donetsk and Luhansk regions in the framework of the Trilateral Contact Group. Elections will be held in accordance with relevant OSCE standards and monitored by OSCE/ODIHR.
13. Intensify the work of the Trilateral Contact Group including through the establishment of working groups on the implementation of relevant aspects of the Minsk agreements. They will reflect the composition of the Trilateral Contact Group.
Note
Such measures are, according to the Law on the special order for local selfgovernment in certain areas of the Donetsk and Luhansk regions:
— Exemption from punishment, prosecution and discrimination for persons involved in the events that have taken place in certain areas of the Donetsk and Luhansk regions;
— Right to linguistic self-determination;
— Participation of organs of local self-government in the appointment of heads of public prosecution offices and courts in certain areas of the Donetsk and Luhansk regions;
— Possibility for central governmental authorities to initiate agreements with organs of local self-government regarding the economic, social and cultural development of certain areas of the Donetsk and Luhansk regions;
— State supports the social and economic development of certain areas of the Donetsk and Luhansk regions;
— Support by central government authorities of cross-border cooperation in certain areas of the Donetsk and Luhansk regions with districts of the Russian Federation;
— Creation of the people's police units by decision of local councils for the maintenance of public order in certain areas of the Donetsk and Luhansk regions;
— The powers of deputies of local councils and officials, elected at early elections, appointed by the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine by this law, cannot be early terminated.
Participants of the Trilateral Contact Group:
Ambassador Heidi Tagliavini
Second President of Ukraine, L. D. Kuchma
Ambassador of the Russian Federation to Ukraine, M. Yu. Zurabov
A.W. Zakharchenko
I.W. Plotnitski
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
ANNEX IIDeclaration of the President of the Russian Federation, the President of Ukraine, the President of the French Republic and the Chancellor of the Federal Republic of Germany in support of the “Package of Measures for the Implementation of the Minsk Agreements”, adopted on 12 February 2015 in Minsk
The President of the Russian Federation, Vladimir Putin, the President of Ukraine, Petro Poroshenko, the President of the French Republic, François Hollande, and the Chancellor of the Federal Republic of Germany, Dr. Angela Merkel, reaffirm their full respect for the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Ukraine. They firmly believe that there is no alternative to an exclusively peaceful settlement. They are fully committed to undertake all possible individual and joint measures to this end.
Against this background, leaders endorse the Package of Measures for the Implementation of the Minsk Agreements adopted and signed on February 12, 2015 by all signatories who also signed Minsk Protocol of September 5, 2014 and Minsk Memorandum of September 19, 2014. Leaders will contribute to this process and will use their influence on relevant parties to facilitate the implementation of that Package of Measures.
Germany and France will provide technical expertise for the restoration of the segment of the banking system in the conflict affected areas, possibly through the establishment of an international mechanism to facilitate social transfers.
Leaders share the conviction that improved cooperation between the EU, Ukraine and Russia will be conducive to the crisis settlement. To this end, they endorse the continuation of trilateral talks between the EU, Ukraine and Russia on energy issues in order to achieve follow-up stages to the gas winter package.
They also support trilateral talks between the EU, Ukraine and Russia in order to achieve practical solutions to concerns raised by Russia with regards to the implementation of the Deep and Comprehensive Free Trade Agreement between Ukraine and the EU.
Leaders remain committed to the vision of a joint humanitarian and economic space from the Atlantic to the Pacific based upon full respect for international law and the OSCE principles.
Leaders will remain committed to the implementation of the Minsk Agreements. To this end, they agree to establish an oversight mechanism in the Normandy format which will convene at regular intervals, in principle on the level of senior officials from the foreign ministries.
Becoming a Ukranian neo-Nazi is easy when battling the Russian-Soviets who created Holodomor.
https://www.britannica.com/event/Holodomor
There is a great demographic divide in the regions you mentioned and an agreement to give these people their proper representation was in progress and was very likely to have succeeded this year. Of course that was before the sudden brutal invasion of the entire country began. As far as Yanukovich, he was in process of being impeached for gross corruption and was going to be removed one way or another. He said he would not step down even if impeached. The day parliament voted 73% for his impeachment, he willingly tucked tail to Russia when he knew it was inevitable.He placed Russia-style limits on assembly and free speech that people yearning for freedom were NEVER going to accept peacefully. Only after the subsequent crackdowns on peaceful protestors did the violence truly begin
What do you call an illegal armed insurrection against a sitting elected President? I don’t think you understand the “rule of law”, “Constitutional Process”, or “Loyal Opposition”.
yanukovich-impeached
328 / 427
76.8149882904%
It wasn’t an armed insurrection.
In 2014, the Presidents of Ukraine, Yanukovych, went back on his election pledge to seek cooperation with the EU. He did this as the anti corruption reforms is not what he wanted.
He moved secretly to sign a deal with Putin.
The public didn’t like this and held peaceful demonstrations in Majdan.
Yanukovych sent in the militias to beat the demonstrators. That caused a larger demonstration of people asking for a change from corruption.
Yanukovych was in process of being impeached for gross corruption and was going to be removed one way or another. He said he would not step down even if impeached. The day parliament voted 73% for his impeachment, he willingly tucked tail to Russia when he knew it was inevitable.
He placed Russia-style limits on assembly and free speech that people yearning for freedom were NEVER going to accept peacefully. Only after the subsequent crackdowns on peaceful protestors did the protests turn violent.
Note that the successor to Yanukovych was Poroshenko, a Russian speaker.
Poroshenko was voted out by the people and the new president was Zelensky, another Russian speaker
There are 450 peoples deputies of Ukraine.
The elections were monitored by 2,321 accredited foreign observers, 304 of them on behalf of 21 states and 2,017 from 20 international organizations.
The Ukrainian democratic watchdog OPORA stated about the elections that they were legitimate, but that “the [election] campaign cannot be called fully free within the limits of the country” because of the fighting in the Donbas region.
The voting was impossible to provide on the territories that was not under government control. Particularly, because of Russian occupation. The voting was not provided in the annexed Autonomous Republic of Crimea and Sevastopol. The voting also did not reach significant parts of Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts because of the ongoing war in Donbas.
Because of this, 27 out of the 450 seats in the 8th Verkhovna Rada remained unfilled.
The impeachment came long after Yanukovich was driven out of office by armed mobs
Former Ukraine President Viktor Yanukovich had been missing since Parliament passed a resolution on February 22nd that kicked him out of office.
With Viktor Yanukovych gone, Ukraine hunts for secrets of former leader: Documents at Yanukovych’s abandoned estate could prove claims of regime corruption – and see him stand trial
“Of the president himself, nothing has been heard since he appeared in a television interview from an undisclosed location on Saturday night, claiming he was still president. But over the weekend, the leader of his own party said that the president was responsible for “criminal orders”, and the Russians also appeared to distance themselves from Yanukovych.
“He has run away, his security and staff have run away … What a pathetic end for a president,” wrote Alexey Pushkov, the hawkish head of the Russian parliament’s foreign affairs committee, on Twitter.”
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/feb/23/viktor-yanukovych-ukraine-secret-documents
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