Posted on 02/06/2023 1:27:31 PM PST by Taxman
First, please note that the prebate is voluntary - to get it, one has to apply for it. SSNs will be required.
If, (and this is my opinion) in your scenario, each of the 3 guys tried to clain the other two as dependents in order to claim a 3 person family prebate, they would eventually get caught and prosecuted for FRaud. There will be a mechanism to cross-check for this kind of FRaud.
IMHO, under the FAIRtax, cheaters would be caught and prosecuted far more FRequently than under the current system.
“not with the fair tax ... which is a national sales tax ...”
I am well aware that the FairTax is a national sales tax. And yes, these questions are asked and answered frequently. I have seen them answered on many forums and have answered them many times myself.
I have seen them answered on many forums and have answered them many times myself.IOW there is no answer.
The long list of deceit, lies, half-truths and what should be simple questions that can't or won't be answered are all reasons the scam should never or will never be passed.
It looks like they all went to the Pelosi "we have to pass it to know what's in it" school of information.
All you're required to know is the tax rate is 23%...Oh! Wait! it's 30%
BTW, the 23/30% rate is for the first year only. After the first year the rate will be determined by the Social Security Administration (what can go wrong there?).
The more you look into it, the uglier it gets.
Name calling will start in_ _ _.
Not so!
The projections are that the economy will be vibrant in the immediate aftermath of FAIRtax implementation, no politician will be able to get elected on an income tax/IRS scheme!
We the People outnumber them and We the People will have to force their hand!
I agree with you: the Flat tax is clearly self-defeating!
The FAIRtax, on the other hand, is a winner!
Thank you!
We need to redouble our effort to replace the Marxist inspired “progressive” income tax with the FAIRtax and abolish the IRS!
Not so!
Read about the FAIRtax here, and scroll down to read about the prebate: https://fairtax.org/about/how-fairtax-works
And then watch this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTOOw7u_lsI
You are most welcome!
Keep working with us to get the FAIRtax implemented!
FER SHURE! FER SHURE!
Thanks, Cobra64.
See how you can help us get the FAIRtax enacted at https://fairtax.org/about/how-fairtax-works
There ARE NO tax “brackets!”
Straight sales tax collected at the point of retail sale!
I see your panties are in a wad yet again, LurkeyLiarLooneyLou, about the FAIRtax rate.
Sit down with your calculator and figure out how much your total tax burden is now and then recalculate it under the FAIRtax.
You will come out ahead!
Thanks Dementon for your reasoned reply. I agree that this is a reasonable interpretation of the bill. However, it requires that the prebate be sent to qualified families. If a household could pick and choose, they would all choose to register as individuals as that would yield the greatest aggregate prebate.
Scenario 2...
A single woman her daughter and the daughter’s husband rent a house together. In this instance they are required to register as one qualified family. The resulting yearly prebate payments for this household is $2630 for each person. The guys in the first scenario are getting $3353 each. All else equal, the folks (sorry) in the second are paying a higher tax rate. Why?
It seems to me the prebate should be factoring in dependents rather than familial relationships.
With regard to fraud, my post was not about fraud, but to question the reasonableness of the prebate scheme. And re voluntary registration, I think this is important for those who value maximum privacy or that prefers a 23% flat tax equivalent. Almost everyone is going to register.
with the fair tax nobody has to reveal how much they earn ... it is not based on income ... it is a retail sales tax ... who told you that crap?
Oh please, politicians run on one thing and then do another. When the economy is great, people hardly pay attention to DC. They aren’t giving up their grift.
with the fair tax nobody has to reveal how much they earnSpreading this knd of ignorance, fake news, misinformation is why this will never pass...Again. For maybe a 3rd or 4th attempt.
SEC. 903. Wages to be reported to Social Security Administration.Why will your wages etc. have to be reported to SS?“(a) In General.—Employers shall submit such information to the Social Security Administration as is required by the Social Security Administration to calculate Social Security benefits under title II of the Social Security Act, including wages paid, in a form prescribed by the Secretary. A copy of the employer submission to the Social Security Administration relating to each employee shall be provided to each employee by the employer.
“(b) Wages.—For purposes of this section, the term ‘wages’ means all cash remuneration for employment (including tips to an employee by third parties provided that the employer or employee maintains records documenting such tips) including self-employment income; ....
“(c) Self-Employment Income.—For purposes of subsection (b), the term ‘self-employment income’ means gross payments received for taxable property or services
Because if passed (never happen) after the first year the SSA determines the sales tax rate (what could go wrong there?)
I believe you. I am all in on the fairtax
I'm with you, at least with my understanding of the fair tax as I support it. But that's not the way the article presents a fair tax. Here's the quote from the article (which I quoted in comment 4):
However, if the family spends more than $3,287 per month on new goods and services, they, they will have to pay the 30% tax exclusive rate on the excess amount. If the family spends their entire income of $3,333 per month, they will pay the FAIRtax on only $46 per month, $3,333 minus $3,287. That means they will pay just $13.80 per month or $165 a year out of their own pocket
That to me looks an awful lot like tax brackets. So my first thought (as I typed in #4), was that this proposed version of a fair tax was for the government to track our spending. When we spend up to a certain point we're taxed at a higher rate. I didn't like that idea.
Eventually in the replies to me (such as post #7 from Valpal1 and post #30 from Dementon) there came the notion that the government won't track our spending to determine our sales tax rate. Instead they'll determine our sales tax rate based on income -- which sounds a lot like tax brackets based on reported income to me. Even if the tax is applies at point of sale instead of at point of income, it would still be based on an income tax bracket. One of them said the way it would work is we're all charged a flat sales tax rate, that the different brackets would be implemented as a kind of prebate from the government for low income people.
So what is it? If it's a flat tax rate with no adjustable rates then I'm for it. But if, as the article proposes, the flat tax would have different rates based on how much we spend, how would that be tracked and implemented so they'd know when to charge the higher rate? That's the part that's throwing me. I don't want the government tracking my spending to know when to charge me a higher rate.
“A single woman her daughter and the daughter’s husband rent a house together. In this instance they are required to register as one qualified family. The resulting yearly prebate payments for this household is $2630 for each person. The guys in the first scenario are getting $3353 each. All else equal, the folks (sorry) in the second are paying a higher tax rate. Why?”
I’m not sure where you are getting your numbers from. The most recent info that I can find from a quick search show that each adult (as of 2021) is eligible for $2962 annually and each dependent $1044 (my numbers may be a bit off but the principle is accurate). In your example there is no requirement for all three to register as on family unit with two being dependents of the third. They could each register individually or the woman and her husband as a married couple. The result would be the same.
“With regard to fraud, my post was not about fraud, but to question the reasonableness of the prebate scheme. And re voluntary registration, I think this is important for those who value maximum privacy or that prefers a 23% flat tax equivalent. Almost everyone is going to register.”
To be honest, I’m kind of with you on that. However, I think the legislation would have an even slimmer chance of being passed if there was not some way to untax the poor. The prebate mechanism was selected as the simplest and least intrusive way to accomplish that.
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