Posted on 12/08/2023 8:38:45 PM PST by Angelino97
This is a misnomer. If an officer has reasonable cause to stop and question you, you have to comply with any reasonable orders he gives to conclude the stop, except any unconstitutional ones.
If you think you were unlawfully stopped, you comply and then take it up with their supervisor or a lawyer. That’s what the law says.
Failure to comply will not necessarily result in an arrest, but it can result in detention for up to 72 hours while the cops try and figure out if you have an any warrants or if there is cause to move to arrest and charges.
As long as they have reasonable cause, they can demand ID.
You can get rectification, if your rights are violated, through the system/
“It’s amazing how many cops don’t know that.”
Oh they know alright. But they don’t care. They are God, you belong to them, and they think they have unquestioned authority over you.
> As long as they have reasonable cause, they can demand ID. <
Some states have laws written in that manner. And that kinda bothers me. It shouldn’t be reasonable cause, but probable cause. In other words, it’s not that the person might have committed a crime, but that he probably committed a crime.
The police are given great power, and rightly so. But that power that can easily spin out of control. So we must always be on guard to keep that power with Constitutional bounds.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_and_identify_statutes
“Most people do not realize it either.
They think every order the cop gives must be obeyed under pain of torture.”
They also think that just being detained and suspected is an automatic guilty ruling and conviction.
I know it’s a clause large enough to drive a Mack truck through, but it’s legal because the onus is on the state to demonstrate that it had reasonable cause if a person files on that his rights have been violated.
Having probable cause might be too much of a burden because it might mean letting people, who fit descriptions of suspects go because you can’t prove beyond description and location that the person fits the profile of a suspect.
How many times is this story going to be posted? Enough, already!
“You can get rectification, if your rights are violated, through the system/”
You are kidding right? They wrongfully kill people and get away with it. You think they are going to get in any trouble for violating rights and demanding ID when they are not supposed to?
From the bottom to the top nation wide, they are all in on the asking for ID when they are not supposed to scam. “Through the system” is a joke and never going to happen because first they have to actually CARE about and respect citizens rights. Not one of them truly does...
If they did, they would police each other over constitutional issues like this and the public would never have to bear the burden because they don’t.
> Oh they know alright. But they don’t care. <
You beat me to it. There are many of YouTube videos of people walking on sidewalks going to work, or whatever. They are stopped by the police. The cop demands ID because the person looks “suspicious”. But the cop cannot articulate a possible crime. Because there is no crime.
“You must present ID when asked by a police officer,” says the cop anyway. That’s a lie, and cops knows it.
Here’s one of the worst videos. An old guy is stopped on a sidewalk. He’s legally blind, and bit grumpy. But it soon becomes crystal clear that he did nothing wrong. So he didn’t want to ID, as is his right. He ended up in cuffs. And then he was taken to jail. Monstrous behavior by the police.
https://youtu.be/SMmiMbJeJjw?si=eELXq5EiOHWY5EmG
No human system is perfect. We can only try to approach it.
If you comply with lawfully given orders, which has been determined to be any order an officer sees as reasonable to conclude a stop, you don’t get killed. If an officer has killed, even if the person was following orders, he can be charged with murder.
Fight the system if you have been wronged. It’s a balance.
The Founding Father started with the high point, but they didn’t necessary start with a system that works. It’s up to us to create that workable system that was based on what the Founding Fathers set up.
The alternative is to allow the worst things you can imagine that can happen to human beings and not bother to solve them, because it would have met principally violating rights. The most dangerous thing in the world, when it comes to protecting rights, is to be an absolutist, because then people will see it as necessary to forgo rights in order to feel secure.
The overarching contention concerns the obligatory charge of racism. Most everything else is irrelevant including the numerous possibilities of excessive female reactivity.
In many states failure to identify is a crime. Especially when pulled over for potential traffic offenses. In those encounters police have a right to identify you.
CC
Depends on the state. Different states have different laws regarding providing ID.
CC
As regards the pot and the gun those charges should stick. The story was written in a way that made it sound like he was just an innocent young man walking with his grandma to church.
CC
So, what you’re saying is you’re both sexist and ignorant of the law.
CC
“You DO NOT have to show ID or identify yourself if the officer has not stated they are detaining you and state the crime you are under investigation for that is the purpose for the detainment. Period, end of story.”
Fact, but here is the problem. A badge is a license to flat out lie. They will tell you they are investigating an “incident down the street and that you fit the description” Even though the event never even happened and they are not actually looking for someone.
I can’t even count how many times I have witnessed officers flat out lie “for purposes of investigation”. And if you call them the liar that they are, they will trump up charges and arrest you or worse. Been there.
A badge is a license to commit fraud and misrepresentation against the public. And they do it all the time in a low IQ effort to “trip you up” and incriminate yourself or to try and “excuse” why they are violating your constitutional rights.
“Depends on the state. Different states have different laws regarding providing ID.”
Pretty sure SCOTUS ruled on this one as being a protected constitutional right no matter what the states think. We are “presumed innocent” and asking for ID without just probable cause or good reason automatically presumes guilt.
This constitutional “presumption of innocence until proven guilty” is a huge deal that is being completely ignored and trashed by law enforcement across the board. As soon as their eyeballs look at you those eyeballs see guilt no matter what the circumstances are. In EVERY circumstance.
Yep...
I don’t think the Supreme Court has ruled on this, but I could be wrong. The sixth circuit, in Nevada, has ruled that if there is reasonable cause, the officer can demand ID.
You can be detained, with reasonable cause, if you fail to provide it for up to 72 hours. This part is in all 50 states, and Guam.
https://www.flexyourrights.org/faqs/when-can-police-ask-for-id/
Constitutional rights are an on/off switch. There is no “Compromise in certain selective cases”. There are all on... Or all off period.
And no... I have been there. There is absolutely nothing that will be done to help you if your rights have been violated. In fact... If you raise a stink against an officer who violated your rights, you now have every officer in that dept on your ass everywhere you go every time they see you. I have lost jobs because of this.
They colluded, targeted me, and made sure I was detained and late to work every morning for two weeks in a row. I even tried leaving earlier and they just held me longer or chose to make a search of my vehicle. You raise a stink, and you WILL be targeted for organized retaliation. So not only will they not police themselves, they will dogpile on anyone who opposes their authority the least little bit.
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