Buchanan's surefire flop. Home Bound

The New Republic ^ | July 11, 2002 | Franklin Foer

[Torie]

Your points are polemical, but not particularly offensive. Number 1 rather misses the mark however (I have yet to meet a neocon that supports the Bush farm bill), and number 5 is hilariously wrong. Neocons invented opposition to quotas and in favor of tort reform (the latter via all those evil think tanks that provided the empirical economic case). Government waste of course is in the eye of the beholder. Some think steel quotas are waste, other don't, for example.

[nanny]

Sounds good!

Of course, I don't know if I am a 'neo' or a 'paleo', but I am a conservative.

I agree with many things Buchanan says, but most of all I agree concerning immigration. Illegal immigration goes to the heart of so many important issues in this country - defense, economics, education, law enforcement. It is destroying our communities and American way of life and is being encouraged and protected by our own President. That is the most frightening of all.

Many people will never admit to agreeing with anything Buchanan says (even if they do wholeheartedly) because the news media has portrayed him as a laughing stock and few people are going to stand up and agree with someone publicly that the news media has attempted to neutralize by making him look foolish.

[sonofron]

well said, surely we can all agree that there is an immigration problem(legal and illegal).

[x]

Good point. In spite of the heated political rhetoric, this may go down in history as another Era of Good Feelings (I've already seen the years 1989-2001 labeled the "Lost Decade," a period of happy oblivion between crises, like the Twenties or the Fifties).

Pat's problem is that the discontents of a decade ago were buried by a decade of real or apparent prosperity. Even if the economy turns worse, it will probably kill off a new magazine before things turn Pat's way again.

You could well be right about socialized medicine. I suspect some kind of stopgap measure will prevent or delay our going whole hog in that direction. But there are other destablizing issues around the corner as well.

When people will be able to buy the kinds of genes for their kids that they want, it will shake up the country in a way that we haven't seen for some time. If one can buy for one's children every potential genetic advantage, it turns libertarian ideology inside out. That, at least, seems to be Francis Fukuyama's view.

[Phillip Augustus]

Genocide? HAHAHAHAHA!!!! Such NWO propaganda! And the ethnic cleansing is going on RIGHT NOW. The Albanian Mooslim terrorists that Clintoon supported are ethnically cleansing Serbia's Jerusalem, Kosovo, of Serbs, Turks, Jews, and Gypsies. Quick question, Torie: if Slobo was so intent on "ethnic cleansing", why didn't he start in Belgrade, the most ethnically diverse city in the former Yugoslavia? Why did he never engage in it there?

Sounds like you are going along with Amanpour's "program".

And, even if your premise was true- which it is not- that still doesn't answer my question; how was this America's business? What right did we have?

[Phillip Augustus]

The first link which you provided is the best resource on the 'Net. I urge everyone, and can't do it emphatically enough, to review that site.

[Torie]

I answered your question. You just didn't like the answer.

[wheezer]

Er, not THIS neocon, and in general I don't think so, certainly not now, where McCain is going off the reservation almost totally. He's even joined in with the gang in hanging up Bush's judge nominations for heavans sake.

Your answer reaffirms my distrust for neocons as the proper approach to your general squishiness. You tiptoe around without ever having the confidence to express what you really think.

That's one characteristic that Pat B. has over your ilk in spades....he has the balls to tell you what he really thinks...even when he's dead wrong and you know it, I know it, and he knows it.

[Torie]

You tiptoe around without ever having the confidence to express what you really think.

This one is a keeper. I have many character flaws. I never considered the above one of them, nor has anyone else whom I have come across until you. Frankly, I don't think you know me very well, or are very familiar with my posting history.

[Phillip Augustus]

Answer this question, then, if you would: how is stopping "mass ethnic cleansing and genocide" America's duty? Or do you actually believe that America is to be the policeman of the entire world? Since you are an admitted neo-con, I suppose the last query was superfluous.

[Torie]

It is a glorious aspect of American values and power that we have both the will and the means to stop such things sometimes. A moral nationhood is more than just about ourselves in a narrow minded sense. More universal values are at stake. It is one reason I love this country so much. Yes, we dropped the ball in Cambodia, and that is a black mark. We are the closest thing yet in the history of this planet to a shinning city on a hill, but not yet alas co-extensive with it.

[Phillip Augustus]

And it often ends in tragedy, especially when aid evil forces, against Christians, as we did in the Balkans. We stabbed Western Civilization in the back by siding with Muslim terrorists over Christian Serbs. Some payback the Serbs received for "guarding the gates" of the West for centuries against the Islamic hordes.

[Phillip Augustus]

I am misunderstanding. Are you suggesting that Buchanan is plagarizing speeches from Otto von Bismarck? Or the Kaiser? Certainly, not Hitler, as Buchanan is as far from a National Socialist as one can be.

[junta]

You are one cynical person. I thought I was cynical, but you take the cake with your revisionist Clintonist history. Slobo fell by electoral means and he would have fallen sooner if the dear Albanians had not boycotted the prior elections (a little noted fact from the Clinton/neocon axis of situational ethics) not by our wasting billions blowing up power plants and bridges.

FYI Chilton Williamson one of those "obsolete" conservatives has the perfect critique of our immigration policy and the neo-cons obliviousness to its hazards in this month's Middle American News.

[Torie]

It was a rather messy election as I recall. As I recall, some post election activities proved necessary. But hey, I am not here to try to persuade you of anything. Have a good evening.

[Phillip Augustus]

Middle American News is another good reference. I urge everyone to read that source, as well as the aforementioned VDARE.

[junta]

MAN bump It is a good source as will Pat's new venture.