Americans are from Mars, Europeans are from Venus

The Sunday Times ^ | February 2, 2003 | Robert Kagan

[Mr. Mojo]

Nor can one simply lump French and Germans together: the first proud and independent but also surprisingly insecure....

Not suprising in the least. How can a country feel collectively secure if it has a history of surrendering at the drop of a hat?

[MadIvan]

If we extrapolate your theory to its conclusion then no one should be posting any articles from any paper here.

In this instance, the Times is not regularly sold in the United States. It just isn't. As such, no money is being lost, because papers with these articles wouldn't be sold anyway.

I have to wonder, given this, why you decided to open fire on me, rather than someone posting from an American publication, which could conceivably lose much more revenues from someone posting on here.

Ivan

[CatoRenasci]

The real core of the problem, of which the debate in the article is merely a symptom, is that the Europeans have come not to believe in the existence of evil. It's too unsophisticated for them, to religious, too Judeo/Christian. Even the Pope, who has by inaction allowed the Church institution itself to harbor pedophiles and so be an instrument of evil to many children, doesn't comprehend that a nation or group could be led by a man so evil that only force will solve the problem.

[Hugin]

THe EU would not exist without NATO, and NATO would not exist without the US. Moreover the Euroweenies could not even muster up the force and fortitude to handle Milosevic without calling on the US to do the heavy lifting. Like all liberals, their moral superiority requires the protoction of those they look down on.

[Mr. Mojo]

[wizzler]

Actually, this is not "my theory." This is a matter of black-and-white law. But you're right -- no one should be posting any articles, from any paper. Not full copyrighted articles, anyway.

Regarding sales of the Times: Your logic is poor. The availability of the Times' dead-tree version is not an issue. This is the Web. You have potentially cost the Times some Web hits.

But ultimately, that's beside the point anyway. Copyright does not say, "Hey, YOU decide if you think this will make us lose revenue. If you don't think it will, then go ahead and publish our work somewhere else."

Copyright gives the owner EXCLUSIVE right to copy. This is not a "revenue" issue. This is a rights issue. Why is this so hard for you to understand?

I'm sorry to seem like I'm "opening fire" on you. I honestly apologize for that. I'm just tired of seeing copyright trampled all over the Web, for the reasons I gave in my previous post.

[Mr. Mojo]

One explanation of Europe’s greater tolerance for threats today is its relative weakness. A man armed only with a knife may decide that a bear prowling the forest is a tolerable danger, because hunting it with a knife is riskier than lying low and hoping it never attacks. The same man armed with a rifle, however, will likely make a different calculation.

The author makes an excellent analogy here.

[Paleo Conservative]

Americans are from Mars, Euroweenies are from Uranus (sorry, I couldn't resist).

This is a duplicate thread. I already posted a similar response a couple of weeks ago.

[gcruse]

Like all liberals, their moral superiority requires the protoction of those they look down on.

Who is looking down on whom?  To insist that European countries refrain from attacking each other because of what the US might do is to cede moral superiority to America, who alone knows what may justify one to go to war. No, those who think other nations behave themselves because of a fear that we will come and spank them are positing moral superiority for themselves and projecting it onto America.  Braying jingoism flows naturally from such assumptions and can be seen aplenty hereabouts.

[Mr. Mojo]

no one should be posting any articles, from any paper. ....I'm just tired of seeing copyright trampled all over the Web

Well then surfing on Free Republic must really exhaust you. You a glutton for punishment?

[Hugin]

Who is looking down on whom?

Left-wing socialists always look down on the military that defends them. I'll take "braying jingoism" over cowardly hypocrisy anyday.

[mikenola]

I think the Kantian utopian model holds great appeal, as an ultimate goal. However, the europeans have entirely failed in solving *any* of the crises of the 20th and 21st century that have arisen within their borders. Only Anglo-American resolve has been able to resolve them.

The europeans have *zero* moral credibiltity IMO. Until human nature changes, the American model will hold sway.

[wizzler]

No, surfing on Free Republic is quite enjoyable, actually. I have found a lot of stimulating commentary by the posters here, and I applaud the site's operators for turning it into one of the Web's must-see sites.

But I am quite astonished to see fellow conservatives blithely defending the practice of copyright infringement, whether in the form of copied articles or "file-sharing" music networks. It's such a betrayal of first principles.

[Mr. Mojo]

American action, even if successful, would be an assault on Europe’s new ideals, a denial of their universal validity.

I believe the author means the "ideals" of Old Europe (Germany and France). Eight other European countries have in fact signed on to our policy of regime change in Iraq.

[eleni121]

Ah those Euros ---- so pacific. Every 50 years or so they launch a bloodbath and then spend another 30 years or so trying to forget, to lay blame, to psychoanalyze, in short to do everything except the sordid truth.

Well, Americans don't forget. We are the ones who have to clean up the Euro's messes!

[gcruse]

One would be remiss in counting on high morality in a democracy. Ours, after all, is the country run for eight years by a raping traitor who gave strategic military secrets to the Communist Chinese in return for their help in financing his election. Things change and must. Moral superiority is worthless in the service of national interest.

[SarahW]

I did notice that the author seems to make one point I have been making over and over.

The Europeans (and democrats here at home) are worried more about American success in prosecution of a war in Iraq than failure, because that then means they are full of crap.

[Mr. Mojo]

Clinton administration finally turned to the use of military force and bombed Iraq in 1999, it did so without security council authorisation and with only Britain by its side.

Yet, not suprisingly, there were absolutely no cries of "unilateralism" by American Democrats.

[MadIvan]

I'm sorry to seem like I'm "opening fire" on you. I honestly apologize for that. I'm just tired of seeing copyright trampled all over the Web, for the reasons I gave in my previous post.

Worse than that, you are detracting from the meaning of the post. As for web hits - the Times generates no revenue from the online content. As such, hits cost bandwidth and bandwidth costs money. In effect, their content being piggybacked onto FR saves them money as well as spreads their name.

If this sort of posting bothers you, I dare suggest you spend all day here totally frustrated and irritated. If you are going to chastise me for this, then I dare say chastise everyone else.

Ivan

[MadIvan]

The Europeans (and democrats here at home) are worried more about American success in prosecution of a war in Iraq than failure, because that then means they are full of crap.

It's worse than you think - many bureaucrats in the EU think being full of crap is an actual solution to problems.

Regards, Ivan