550 Years Ago Today: The Fall of Constantinople

North Park University ^ | Unknown | Unknown

[PJ-Comix]

Mehmed renamed the city Istanbul.

I thought that happened around 1920 under Attaturk.

[Seydlitz]

You might recall that the Crusades started in the [D]ark [A]ges. This was European help to the Byzantines and Jerusalem.

Reality Check: The First Crusade was launched in 1099 A.D. The Muslims hit the Byzantines in the mid-7th Century. Therefore, we are talking about a time-lag of 400+ years. Europe, in the 7th century, could not help itself, let alone the Byzantine empire.

[PJ-Comix]

Interesting that the Muslims took Constantinople at around the same time they were getting thrown out of Spain.

[Question_Assumptions]

Let's not forget that the Byzantine Empire was weakened by its own internal infighting. A lot of Turks were brought in as mercenaries by various Byzantine factions.

[Frumious Bandersnatch]

Actually, the First Crusade started in 1095 and lasted until 1100. But another reality check - Constantinople did not fall until 1204.

The First Crusade started because of persecution of Christians and pilgrims at Jerusalem.

[katana]

The Arab muslims conquered all the Middlle East up to the eastern edge of Asia Minor in the 600 and 700's so you're really talking about a 700 year span that the Byzantines managed to keep Islam out of Europe (paradoxically, Islam lost its foothold in the west, Andalusian Spain, at roughly the same time that Byzantium finally fell).

The Turks were a different race and whole other order of military might than the Arabs and really had nothing to do with the initial outbreak of Islam or the crusades directly.

It's completely true that the city of Constantinople was crippled and left terminally weakened by the Fourth Crusade and most of the Balkans had already fallen to the Turks by the time they took Constantinople. By 1453 The Greeks were surrounded and any relief from the west would have had to fight its way through or come by sea.

The Turks were a constant threat to take Europe for another 230 years until they were finally turned back at Vienna in 1683. From then they stagnated while Europe went through the Enlightenment and entered the modern industrial age and are left now with just Asia Minor and a little bit of Europe (including the City of Constantine). This makes modern Turkey a genuine mix of Asia and the West and completely unlike the Arabs or any other group of muslims.

[Seydlitz]

Yes, the Pope called the First Crusade in 1095; 1099 was the siege of Jerusalem. However, the issue was whether Europe could have provided material aid to the Byzantines against the initial Arab assault. In the mid-7th century, when the Arabs hit the Byzantine empire, Europe was utterly incapable of sending substanive military assistance.

What does the Latin's sack of Constantinople in 1204 have to do with the Arab invasion of the 7th century?

[Junior]

Here is a more detailed account of the fall of the city. It puts the actual time of the fall at after midnight on the 29th.

http://www.unf.edu/classes/byzantium/cached/fallofconstantinople.html

[Frumious Bandersnatch]

It wasn't until 1071 that the Turks were able to defeat Byzantine forces at Manzikert - a part of the Byzantine empire up until that time (in eastern Turkey). Constantinople was part of the Byzantine empire and did not fall to any Islamic armies (Arab or otherwise) until 1204. The Byzantine empire kept a check on Islamic expansion until the latter end of the the 13th and beginning of the 14th centuries, when the forces of Islam finally were able to control all of Asia Minor.

The Arab muslims never were able to kick out the Christians.

[Antoninus]

What really crippled the Byzantines is when the CRUSADERS trashed and plundered Constantinople earlier. Then they were easy pickings for the Turks later, who finished them off.

That's a bit simplistic. The soldiers of the Fourth Crusade took Constantinople in 1204 and the Latin Kings held it until 1261 (or thereabouts) when the Byzantines retook it. It was nearly 200 years from there to the final fall 1453.

What really doomed the Byzantines was continual pressure on two fronts. Constantinople itself was able to hold out against this pressure and survive scores of sieges for over 1000 years thanks to its incredibly stout defensive works. With the advent of heavy artillery, these walls, which dated to the time of Theodosius II (Fifth Century AD) were suddenly obsolete.

[Frumious Bandersnatch]

Also, it was the Seljuk Turks taking of Manzikert that really started the impetus for the First Crusade,

[John Beresford Tipton]

Theose Lyrics are at this site,
along with nice music that
plays as you read them
http://www.kanyak.com/lyrics.html

Istanbul (Not Constantinople)

-Artists: The Four Lads

-peak Billboard position # 10 in 1953

-Words by Jimmy Kennedy and Music by Nat Simon

Istanbul was Constantinople

Now it's Istanbul not Constantinople

Been a long time gone

Old Constantinople's still has Turkish delight

On a moonlight night

Evr'y gal in Constantinople

Is a Miss-stanbul, not Constantinople

So if you've date in Constantinople

She'll be waiting in Istanbul

Even old New York was once New Amsterdam

Why they changed it, I can't say

(People just liked it better that way)

Take me back to Constantinople

No, you can't go back to Constantinople

Now it's Istanbul, not Constantinople

Why did Constantinople get the works?

That's nobody's business but the Turks'

[Antoninus]

Hagia Sophia -- Justinian's great church in Constantinople.

[Antoninus]

Hagia Sophia -- interior

[eleni121]

Aghia Sophia
(A Byzantine Orthodox Christian Cathedral - now a whitewashed "museum" a la Soviet times)

She smiles wisely
as befits her name;
officially subservient
she bides her time

They have burned her
and broken her and whitened
her and terrorized her,
she is there unfazed
on a hill between Topkapi and the Mosque
floating in her chains

If you have a moment
let me tell you of a city
forgotten by most
let me tell you of a glory
once
to thrill
the ages

The tourists clamor to poke and touch and scratch at her
and the guides cooly talk of her past,
of kings and queens and hearts broken
and the mighty slain
have all been within her
The odd visitor will sign the cross and wipe a tear
for what was.

As the moon's light tonight glows
the vastness of her dome will thrill you.
Her outline of ancient geometry
will fill you with a strange longing and the urchins who spend their unending hours
with her all night to beg for pennies
will bask in her warmth

[Frumious Bandersnatch]

Yes, it was a Latin kingdom at that time - taken from the Byzantines (who later retook it from the Latins before it finally fell to the Turks).

My point is that as late as the 11th century, the Byzantine empire extended clear to what is now eastern Turkey. With the fall of Manzikert in 1071, the Byzantine empire was seriously threatened, but Constantinople was still in the Byzantine's hands. Indeed, it had never left it's hands.

[Mihalis]

Eleni, thank you, this is beautiful!

[gcruse]

The Christians were still allowed to practice their religion,
 but had to dress in distinguishing attire and could not bare arms.

And that is why, to this day, only atheists wear short sleeves.
This was written by a University???

[Drew68]

Not to mention, the current Miss World is Turkish.

The post you replied to was pulled for reasons other than the pic. Therefore, I'm going to repost the picture of hot Turkish babes. (and bump this thread)

Enjoy!

[Sparta]

Excellent poem. Thanks.