The Universal Christ

(Here) is a link to some good information about Kuhn.

Thanks for the book suggestion. I just checked out the reviews on Amazon...and noted that it is recommended along with a book I just bought yesterday, "The Elegant Universe", by Brian Greene. The Elegant Universe is about the "string theory". I'm hoping I'll be able to grasp some of it.

That one sounds interesting too. Let us know how it is.

I am not surprised by the similarities but I think you have the genesis turned around. It is not myth to gospel but gospel to myth.

Take a look at Genesis chapter 4. I use King James but I don't think it matters. There you see the story of Cain and Abel. Notice that they are making offerings to the Lord so they have been taught about making sacrifices to the Lord. Why is Cain's sacrifice not accepted? Probably because it didn't involve the shedding of blood and a perfect sacificial animal. Why did that matter? Because they had been taught the sacrifice emulates the future sacrifice of the Messiah on their behalf, and they probably also had been taught that the Messiah would someday be killed and rise again after three days. Therefore, the promise of a Messiah was taught from the moment Adam and Eve were ejected from the Garden.

So, to me, it is not surprising that corrupted versions of that prophecy and promise might be found in many different civilizations. Are they not all descendants of Adam and Eve? That is why I believe the transmission is from gospel to myth and not the other way around. No, I am not a divinity graduate or student or theologian. I am just a Christian who sees meaning in the Book of Genesis that might explain these very similar stories.

Maya I wish you a Meri Christmas!!!

/s

The only devil that mankind needs to worry about is the himself.

If that is your view of mankind, we disagree about the fundamental nature of man. But we agree about the Devil. The only hell to fear is the one you put yourself through.

Exactly. To ignore God(love)and worship the self(satan, money, greed, power) is the absence of God(hell). God is not everywhere in the sense that He is not in your heart unless you seek for Him there.

Well, God is still there, but your connection is turned off, so you perceive God as absebt. But God is always right there. God is Omnipotent, Omniscinet, Omnipresent. The One Power, One Presence is usable at any time by us. We always use it, but unless we make deliberate use of it, we perceive it as random and not "of God." If you seek you shall find. It is called freewill. He departs from the wicked.

God never departs from us, because God is All There Is. But we "turn off" teh connection by the imagining that God is not there. Even though this is not true, Divine Law acts as if it were. But we can change that by making a new decision at any time.

'maya' isn't a woman's name but the Sanskrit word for 'illusion'.

Both, actually. And that goes right to the symbolism of the story: the emergence from illusion.

But there are those people who reject God, and He is merciful enough to make allowances, even for them. Hence, there is a place where God is not.

If you reject God, God still does not reject you, but Divine Law operates in a way in your life that most of us woudl consider negative. Nevertheless, God is there and you can change your life by changing your thinking. That place is Hell, and that is where people can go if they wish to reject God. This is permitted through our own Free Will and from the mercy of God.

Hell, like Heaven, is not a geographical location. It is a state of mind, a state of being, a way of life. If you change the hellish thinking that leads to hellish conditions, they can be heavenly. Then your state of mind, your state of being, your way of life has changed. Now you are no longer in Hell, but in Heaven.

E=Mc2 Everything is energy. Matter being seperate from energy is an illusion, just like we being seperate from God is an illusion.

The cutting-edge scientists like Dr. Amit Goswami say that everything is consciousness. "Consciousness is the ground of all being," Dr. Goswami writes. He also says that "the Universe is self-aware through us."

Scinece quite a while ago concluded that matter is simply compressed energy. I believe that further investigation will discover that energy is merely compressed consciousness.

In any event, energy is a divine attribute, so if we are energy, that is the One Power of the Universe expressing Itself as us.

We are like drops of water and God is the ocean we are all a part of.

One of my favorite analogies for God. If God is the infinite ocean, each of us is a drop of that ocean, carrying all tis attributes but in microcosm.

Those who end up in Hell will be those who rejected Christ. They chose to have an existance apart from God.

Do you really believe ina God who would condemn at least 80 percent of creation (given that 20 percent say they are Christians) to eternal damnation? Why would I want any part of such a God? That God seems spiteful and mean to me.

As Dr. Holmes has written, "I thank the God that is that the God they told me about isn't."

Is His love and mercy limitless to All? Is His forgiveness universal?

Well, yes. But you have to accept it. As long as you reject it, you have buil;t a mental dam that blocks the flow of Divine Love. But when you open the dam, Divine Love flows like a river.

Being Just and being merciful at the same time is an oxymoron.

I can see how you'd say that, but it isn't really. As Browning reminds us, "All is Love, yet All's Law."

"It is the FAther's good pleasure to give you the Kingdom," but the way Divine Law works is that you only get what you can accept. So if you are only open to a little of God's abundance, prosperity, and the blessings of the Kingdom, then a little is all you will get. But if you oipen up to much more, you'll get much more.

Divine Law produces for you exactly what you expect it to produce for you at the deepest level. If it is not producing what you want, then you need to open up your thinking, allowing it to produce the new condition that you desire.

In other words, there is a thread of Truth that runs through all religions.

For example, in my files somewhere I have a piece of paper oultining the principle of the Golden Rule in 12 religious traditions. This is one point of commonality.

Do you really believe ina God who would condemn at least 80 percent of creation (given that 20 percent say they are Christians) to eternal damnation? Why would I want any part of such a God? That God seems spiteful and mean to me.

Doesn't matter what I want to believe. It it truth that matters. Jesus Christ is the way, the truth and the Life. Christ warned us more about Hell than any other. I would love to believe that there is a rosey, happy after live for all. But it is not what God tells us.

Jesus Christ is the way, the truth and the Life.

That is your belief, and you're entitled to it. There are numerous interpreteations. Jesus knew that "I AM" is a name of God, that God told Moses this. When we say "I am" we are invoking God.

I would love to believe that there is a rosey, happy after live for all. But it is not what God tells us.

Again, you have no objective basis for that suypposition. You're entitled to believe it, but that doesn't make it objective Truth.

Again, I find it hard to believe in a God that would condemn at least 80 percent of creation. It just doesn't make sense. That seems awfully arbitrary, capricious, and mean to me.

We are eternal, not in this form, but in our true being. How can a loving God set up a system in which 4/5 of humanity is condemned to live that eternal life spearate from God in a place of misery?

Why would one want to worship a God like that?

It sounds like Volttaire's witticism was truer than any of us would like: "God created man in His image and likeness and man promptly returned the favor."

That is your belief, and you're entitled to it. There are numerous interpreteations. Jesus knew that "I AM" is a name of God, that God told Moses this. When we say "I am" we are invoking God.

Sorry. I never use the phrase "I AM" to invoke God. If I use that term, I refer to myself, expressing a personal view, never to invoke God.

Again, I find it hard to believe in a God that would condemn at least 80 percent of creation. It just doesn't make sense. That seems awfully arbitrary, capricious, and mean to me

You lack a basic understandong of the message of the Bible. God, through Jesus Christ, has accepted a way for eveyone to escape condemnation. God is not arbitrary, capricious and mean. God loves his entire creation. He has given us a guideline of how he wants us to live (the Bible). He understands that even the best of us could not live up to that standard, so Jesus Christ (God/Son of God) came to die on the cross so that no one would have to be condemned. This is a free gift that is offerred to each of us.

In essence, we did the crime, Jesus paid the fine. This is the greatest act of love that can be shown by God for his creation.

Unfortunatly, one must accept this gift. Too many people want to do things their way, clinging to their own self rightessness, thinking that they can somehow work or merit their salvation rather than accept this gift.

You see an arbitrary, capricious, and mean God while I see one that is infinately holy, full of love and grace.

We are eternal, not in this form, but in our true being. How can a loving God set up a system in which 4/5 of humanity is condemned to live that eternal life spearate from God in a place of misery?

I can partially agree with you on this. We were created eternal, and will one day be raised in perfect bodies. What you do not understand is that God has given us the "rules", shows us his holy nature, and provides a way in which we can be united with him. The "4/5 of hummanity" that you claimed is condemned is in many ways not condemned. They make a decision to rejest God for some false God of their own creation. They do not want to spend eternity with the one true god, and God will not force them to do this. What is worse, to spend eternity seperate from God, or be forced to spend eternity before a God you do not want to be associated with?

Sorry. I never use the phrase "I AM" to invoke God. If I use that term, I refer to myself, expressing a personal view, never to invoke God.

Jesus knew that "I AM" is a name of God, that God told Moses this. When we invoke "I am" on behalf of ourselves, we are activating Divine Law in our lives.

You lack a basic understandong of the message of the Bible.

I love the condescension in this. If someoen doesn't reflect your view, that person "doesn't understand the basic mesage."

I understand it. I just don't see it the way you do. Do you deny that at least 80 percent of creation is condemned by the rules of the religion you adhere to, the God you worship? If you're going to maintain that there is only one way to God, then yor position is that 4/5 of creation is condemned, since they don't claim adherence to that one way.

If we are created in the image and likeness of God, how can we be sinful in nature? That's logically contradictory.

God has given us the "rules", shows us his holy nature, and provides a way in which we can be united with him.

How is it possible to be separate from an infinite, unlimited, Omnipresent God?

Rather than try and address each question you ask, I will cut to what I think is at the heart of our discussion and focus on that. If I am incorrect in my understanding, than please correct me so I can better address this.

I get the feeling that you believe that God will just randomly select this "4/5 of creation" that you focus on, and will just toss those into the Lake of fire for no reason.

1) The Bible tells me that Jesus is the son of God, and that Jesus Christ himself IS GOD.

2) You state "If you're going to maintain that there is only one way to God... " while I say to you, it is not I who maintain this view, but Jesus Christ who states He (Jesus) is God and that He (Jesus) is the only way to God. Now either Christ is a complete nutcase, or he is whom he says he is.

You wish to say that I am "condescending" if I state you do not understand the Bible, and you continue with If someone doesn't reflect your view, that person "doesn't understand the basic message." Please tell me where I am wrong. You yourself say that 4/5 of creation is going to be condemned. I may not agree on that exact figure, but I agree that the majority (51%+) will be. We are in agreement here. What you do not understand is that God must punish sin. All sin is a transgression against Him.

Let's take a look at the 10 commandments. I go here for many reasons. The Bible tells us that God himself wrote these with his finger. The Christians, Jews and Muslims can all agree that these are Gods commands, and even most other worldly religions can agree on these at lease in principle.

God tell us we are not to lie. Have you ever told a lie? If so, that makes you a liar. Have you ever used the name of God in vain> If so, that makes you a blasphemer. Have you ever stolen? If so, according to Gods Law, you are a thief. Never killed anyone? Hold on, Jesus equates hate to murder. Never committed adultery? Think again, Jesus tells us that if we have ever looked upon another with lust, we are guilty of committing adultery in our heart.

I AM is one of the names of God. Another of his titles is righteous Judge. When we stand before God, on judgement day HE MUST PUNISH SIN. If he does not, than he is not a righteous Judge.

God has shown himself to be long suffering. He has waited patiently ever since Adam sinned. He has watched us defile his word, curse his name, commit crimes of hate, lust and greed. Each time we do these things, we sin just not against each other, but against Him.

God created us. He doesn't need us, doesn't need to show us any love in this life or the next. We have nothing of our own as He owns all. If God wants to wipe us out of existence, as if we never existed, then he can do this. Why? Because like the rest of creation, he created us and owns us. We have no say in the matter, or at least didn't have a say, until Jesus Christ came.

Old Testament scriptures told the people what God was going to do (send a Saviour). The new Testament proclaims who that Saviour was (Jesus Christ) and how he brought salvation. The "4/5" of creation (give or take) chose to follow the mistakes that Adam made, questioning God, believing that God is holding out, is unjust, unfair, etc. They reject the free give of salvation that Christ offers, because in order to accept that gift, they must turn from their ways, humble their hearts, and repent.

Christ came to save the whole world. but the majority will turn away from God, just as it did before. You ask "How is it possible to be separate from an infinite, unlimited, Omnipresent God?". With God, all things are possible, including granting the simple request of one who wishes to live eternity separate from God. Even in the condemnation that will come, rather than just wipe us out (obliterate us), God loves us so much that he will allow us to continue to exist separate from him. God can not look upon sin. The sacrifice of Christ was to take the righteousness of Christ himself and cover our sins. It is not a case of God tossing us randomly into the lake of fire, but those of us who reject the sacrifice of Christ that sends the "4/5" to condemnation.

I know many who don't want to admit that they, through their actions and decisions chose to be one of the condemned. They turn things around then want to blame God for this condemnation. In simple terms, its like my son being sent to his room for disobedience. Don't get me wrong, I have a wonderful son, but there are times when he disobeys. He knows that some of the penalties for disobeying include going to bed early. It is amazing how often (at least according to him) that is it my fault he is going to bed early, rather than admit he did wrong and that the punishment is just. How many people today want to do the same?

Some more examples of TBP's pro-Islam propaganda, trying to spread lies about christianity.

The Similarities are made up, non-existent similarities as shown in post 36