Posted on 03/01/2007 9:06:23 PM PST by Alex Murphy
Permit me, if I might, to shed a little light on some misconceptions that you and some others may have as to the position of the SA on the Catholic church. Those of us who are Salvationists, in other words members of the SA, have been asked by the General, the international leader, to pray for the success of Pope Benedict XVI. I find it rather strange to see the term "anti-Catholic bigot" used at the same time many of us are including him in our prayers. While I am not a theologian, I can assure you that Catholics are considered as brothers-in-Christ. The General went to Rome for the installation of the Pope, not to thumb his nose, but out of respect for him and your church. While our worship forms couldn't be more different, the substantive value issues for which we stand are quite similar, such as abortion, same-sex marriage, gay rights and pre-marital sex. In cities like New York and San Francisco the SA and the Catholic church have stood shoulder-to-shoulder in resisting the liberal agenda being forced upon people of faith. For those who can't see why a Catholic would want to work for the SA, you need to start with the Knights of Columbus. I understand they do a great job of volunteer bell-ringing for the Army at Christmas time
Then why are you applying for a job with his ministry? Are you there to do the work of the minstry or to convert the ministers?
If one can't answer yes to the question of whether or not you are a "Born Again Christian" or if one has to dance around the question, then I'd have to conclude that they are not.
... Let your yea be yea and your nay be nay.
Since they'd worked together for 2 years, I suspect the interviewer didn't need to go any farther. (or is that "further?" :>)
Dear Upbeat,
"I find it rather strange to see the term 'anti-Catholic bigot' used at the same time many of us are including him in our prayers."
I didn't make any comment about the Salvation Army generally, only about the individual cited in the article, who seemed to take the answer, "I am a Catholic" as a "no" to the question, "Are you a Christian?"
It's roughly analogous to, "Do you own a motor vehicle?" and getting back, "I own a Chevrolet."
The individual is answering with more specificity than required by the question, but nonetheless answering in the affirmative.
The only interpretation that can be given here is that the Salvation Army fellow doesn't think that Catholics are Christians.
As well, some have suggested here that it was un-Christian of the Catholic to sue the Salvation Army.
I'm grateful that Salvationists feel some solidarity with Pope Benedict. However, I'm pretty sure that if the Catholic fellow in this case had brought his case before a tribunal of the Catholic Church (the only religious tribunals that Catholics recognize) against the Salvation Army or its members, the Salvation Army and its members would not have recognized the authority or validity of the tribunal. Even if headed by Pope Benedict, himself.
sitetest
Dear blue-duncan,
Briefly, to validly baptize is to wash with water an unbaptized person (when my sons were baptized, the priest poured the water over their foreheads), and say the trinitarian formula of baptism, with the proper intention.
sitetest
Regardless of the rights or wrongs in this particular case, the winner is the MSM. They have succeeded in driving a wedge between believing Christians.
Dear P-Marlowe,
The job was that of social worker, as far as I can see, not minister of the Gospel.
Unless the Salvation Army spelled out in the job requirements that one was required to hold an evangelical Protestant faith, I don't know why the fellow would assume it.
As well, the fellow had been working there two years, including several months in the full-time position. If they had a formal requirement for evangelical Protestant faith for permanent placement in that position, they could have communicated that to him when he indicated interest in the permanent placement.
In which case, they wouldn't have accepted his application in the first place, and there would have been no interview.
"If one can't answer yes to the question of whether or not you are a 'Born Again Christian' or if one has to dance around the question, then I'd have to conclude that they are not."
And your conclusion would be as false as the assumptions that undergird it. We Catholics understand valid baptism as being "born again" by water and the Holy Spirit. Yet, if I were to merely answer, "Yes," to the question, "Are you born again?" I'd either be acceding to the [false] definition of "born again" of my interlocutor, or I would be deceiving him into thinking that I was acceding to that definition.
Sometimes, a "yes" or "no" is a lie.
sitetest
Dear xzins,
"Since they'd worked together for 2 years, I suspect the interviewer didn't need to go any farther. (or is that 'further?' :>)"
Indeed. Then, rather than use this bogus reason for rejecting his promotion - tell the truth. "You have a bad attitude." Or even they could have said upfront, sorry, we're looking for an evangelical Protestant, but thanks anyway.
But saying that "I am a Catholic" is an answer of "no" to the question, "Are you a Christian?" is anti-Catholic bigotry.
sitetest
IOW, you are not a "Born Again Christian"?
Dear Upbeat,
"They have succeeded in driving a wedge between believing Christians."
I guess that's possible, but I don't think that's the case.
The wedges you see here in this thread existed before the posting of this thread.
As for me, I don't feel any better or worse toward the Salvation Army generally as a result of this article. I'm not impressed with the Catholic man's Salvation Army superior, but heck, I'm not especially impressed with the Catholic man, himself.
I've said right along that I just don't have any problem with the Salvation Army not wanting to hire Catholics for specific positions in your organization. More power to you!
sitetest
Yes, just as I answered in Number 14.
Dear P-Marlowe,
Of course I'm "born again" (or "born from above" as is the preferred Catholic translation)!
Praise be to God, I was validly baptized at the age of four weeks old! I was baptized in the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. The waters of baptism washed away my Original Sin, and brought me into life in the family of God. Through baptism, I received God's salvific grace.
Are you "born again"? Have you been validly, sacramentally baptized with water and the Holy Spirit?
sitetest
Just a simple question: Are you a "Born Again Christian"?
yes or no.
P-Marlowe,
Have you stopped beating your wife?
Just a simple question. Yes or no.
sitetest
For me the Scriptural plea has always been "Sir, we would see Jesus." I do a terrible job of reflecting Jesus when I get angry, and I get angry when people insult my Christian faith as a Catholic. Pray for me that I do not let the sun set on my anger and that I may serve the Lord Jesus Christ more faithfully.
I'm a "Born From Above" Christian...
Do you read Greek?
Have I "stopped" beating my wife?
No.
Are you a "Born Again Christian"?
Is that a "no"?
Dear P-Marlowe,
Why did you need to repeat the question, and distort what I asked by putting "stopped" in quotes?
It's just a simple question:
Have you stopped beating your wife?
Yes or no. Only. No filtering. No interpretation, no re-arranging of words.
Yes or no.
;-)
Thanks,
sitetest
Catcha' later.
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