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"You mean like having actual academic standards?"

I'm confused. You brought up the phrase "academic standards" in a discussion about college sports. What's the connection between these two topics? ;-)

"Also, Syracuse is 270 miles away from NYC."

That's true but they have a huge alumni base in the tri-state area. Most of their students are not from around Syracuse, but rather the NYC suburbs in Long Island, New Jersey and Connecticut. I grew up half an hour away from Syracuse and when I was a student there, I felt like an outsider in my own back yard.

Having said that, I think the main constituency for Orangemen football is from Syracuse-area locals. Nobody goes to Syracuse to see football, and I think most students stop caring about it as soon as they graduate. But there are a lot of townies who follow the program. Many of them are old-timers who remember the Jim Brown days.

Of course, basketball is a different story. That's a program that can deliver the NYC TV market plus a whole lot more all over the country. Too bad basketball revenues aren't enough to make up for what you lose by not being in a BCS conference. If it weren't for that, I almost believe Syracuse would scrap football altogether, or just go to 1-AA and compete with Colgate and Ithaca College for local bragging rights.

There are people on a Syracuse sports board which I frequent who seriously want to attempt to get Hillary involved in this on behalf of SU. I seriously doubt that would happen, but if it did, Shalala would quickly fall into line and save the Big East from becoming the equivalent of the Patriot League. I'd hate to see more Clintonites get involved especially Senator Pantsuit, but after what the pols in Virginia pulled and the way the ACC screwed Syracuse & Boston College, it would almost serve them right to face the wrath of Hillary. If there's any possible way this thing could become even more of a farce, that would be it!

"I have severe philosophical problems with this concept, even though I'm hardly a socialist. Money should follow quality, not the other way around."

I agree with you. The ACC is going for what they perceive to be the quick easy big payoff without regard to whether the move will make them better. Sort of like the dot com fever mentality of a few years back, applied to sports. Ultimately, making a better conference would yield the bigger returns long term, but they aren't looking that far ahead. Personallly, I think this whole "Superconference" notion is not going to pan out like many seem to think it will. Time will tell.

I will say one thing though in defense of Syracuse, (Admitedly I'm biased because SU is my alma mater and I grew up in the Syracuse area.) These moves are being made because of football but basketball is also a consideration- especially for the ACC. Syracuse is the National Champion right now and are almost always a top 20 team. Virginia Tech is abysmal at basketball. Also - it's not a big moneymaking sport but lacrosse is big at some ACC schools like UVA & UNC and Syracuse is consistently one of the best lacrosse programs in the country. In fact Syracuse is probably a better all around sports school than Tech, even if the Hokies are by far the better football program right now. (Although if you look over the past 15-20 years, I think you'll find SU has traditionally been more than a match for Tech on the gridiron.)

I'm going to start a bunch of threads making the case that Carthage was right during the Punic Wars and start pi$$ing and moaning about the "War of Roman Aggression" and generally playing woulda, shoulda, coulda about the whole thing. I figure if so many people are excited to play Monday Morning Quarterback over a war that ender almost 140 years ago, then there's got to be a ton of pent up demand over something that was over 2,000 years ago! Any "Neo-Carthaginians" out there care to join me?

College football definitely does take a back seat to the pros here in the Northeast. And it's popularity here certainly can't compare to the fanatical devotion found in SEC country or Big 10 country. On the other hand, there is definitely a niche market for it, particularly among alumni. The ACC is doing all this in hopes of getting a fatter TV contract. The devotion or size of the fan bases aren't as important as what TV markets they can deliver. To the extent that anyone north of Pennsylvania cares about college football, Syracuse & Boston College are the two major players and they give you the New York TV market (#1 in the country) and the Boston TV market (#6 in the country.) You also get all the other markets in upstate NY & New England which covers pretty considerable number of people taken as a whole. Miami also has a lot of alumni in the Northeast, so that helps. Virginia Tech has a big fan base, but they don't give you anything in the way of TV markets that the ACC doesn't already own. That sounds unfair from a pure football perspective, but this is about money. But I'm sure you already knew that.

"I left for NC 7 years ago and it will take an act of God to get me to ever return to NY."

I know A LOT of people who moved to Carolina from Upstate NY. Everybody I talk to loves it. My father in law was one of them. Unfortunately, he tells me that the Tarheel State is now starting to show early signs of going the way of NY & CA. Getting more liberal politically, "temporary" tax hikes that never go away, declining economy. It sounds like a great haven is being spoiled and assimilated into another northeastern style bastion of big government. I hope he's just exaggerating, because if it's true, it just gives people one less place to escape to.

As a former New Yorker, it's both interesting and depressing to see other places make the same mistakes that my home state made. You Californians should go visit places like Buffalo, Syracuse, or Utica if you want to see the long-term effects that unbridled taxes and regulations have on communities which were once booming economically. Maybe it's not to late to avoid the same fate.

Darnit! I was going to use that "Sinister Pig" joke, but you beat me to it. That one is just waaaaay too easy!

"Puke and the Tarholes are holding back because they are scared of flying and playing Syracuse."

I don't think that's the main reason, but I do think there's something to that idea. At least as far as UNC is concenrned. They're desperately trying to recapture their glory days in basketball after a few years of mediocrity. Bringing Syracuse into the mix is just one more huge hurdle they'd have to overcome to get back on top of the ACC. Plus Jim Boeheim has already shown that he can out-coach Roy Williams. Finally, I can't imagine any team would really look forward to flying that far to play in a place as big, crazy and inhospitable to visitors as the Carrier Dome. (Check out the Orangemen's home record this past season.)

I'll play Devil's Advocate here. How spiritual and enlightened was this culture really, if just a short exposure to television turned them into the shallow, materialistic lowlifes this article describes? I'm the first one to admit that TV can have a negative impact on society, but if the society of Bhutan is that fragile, I think they were vulnerable to more than just trash television. Sooner or later the modern world was going to catch up with them in one form or another. If they suffer ill effect from that contact, it's unfortunate, but frankly if they had been living as blissfully as this article would have you believe, then we'd be copying them and not the other way around.

"Is the USA arrogant?

Damn straight we are!"


As they say in sports, "It ain't bragging if you can back it up!"

Within the next few weeks, all the preseason magazines will start to come out (maybe some are already out, I haven't checked.) That's when the NFL bug always bites me. I start leafing through the mags to see their predictions and catch up on which players have gone where, etc. Once I do that, it's all over. From mid-July to the first kickoff in Sept. I'm like a kid waiting for Christmas. The first Sunday of the NFL season just might be the best sports days of the year. I'd say it's even better than Super Bowl Sunday(unless, of course, your team is one of the two vying for the Lombardi Trophy.)

Great post Tall Texan. I've been following this Big East-ACC mess for a while now and I agree with your take on it all.

I'm a Syracuse fan, and personally, I wish the Big East could find a way to stay together, even if Miami leaves. Syracuse thinks they'll have no choice but to follow Miami & BC to remain viable in football. My thinking is that they aren't viable in football now, haven't won a football championship since 1959, and are probably never going to see the top of any conference with FSU & Miami anyway. Why should a basketball school walk out on a great basketball conference for the sake of the BCS? The only upside is it will give them the chance to prove on the court how overrated all the traditional ACC basketball powers down on tobacco road really are!

"Is that Mick's son?"

Actually the guy is/was probably about old enough to be Mick's dad. That's pretty scary to think about since Mick & the rest of the Stones now look older than Methusaleh.

That airfield scene was great. Dean Jagger was absolutely terrific throughout that movie. After seeing it, I couldn't help but wonder why he didn't do more over the course of his career. In a lot of ways it was really his movie more than it was Peck's.

I just wanted to second the motion on "Twelve O'Clock High" I love WWII movies and this is probably one of the 10 best of that genre. I read somewhere that it portrays such a good case study of leadership that it was once required viewing for Air Force officer candidates. (Can any Air Force folks out there confirm this?)Anyway,it was a good story and Peck delivered a great performance, as always.

"There are many of us who know it won't overtake the NBA, NFL, NHL, and MLB."

Don't be so sure. All soccer has to do is hold it's current level of popularity and it will supass the declining MLB & NHL as they slide down.

But like you said, there's plenty of room for soccer as a niche sport. I'd argue that all of the major sports except the NFL are rapidly becoming niche sports anyway. New liesure options are being added all the time, yet the size of the "pie" of people's liesure time remains constant at best. The more you slice that pie up, the more everything loses mass appeal and becomes a niche for hardcore enthusiasts.

"Why not get acquainted?"

If there's one thing Americans hate worse than soccer, it's listening to the rest of the world telling us how much we're missing by not sharing their passion for it ;-)

Seriously, I don't know what it is, but for whatever reason Soccer just doesn't appeal to the average American. Sure there are a significant number of enthusiasts, but most of us just find it boring. It probably has something to do with the short American attention span. Or maybe we're suspicious of any timed sport where the clock runs up instead of down.

Mostly, I suspect it's because our sports plate is already extremely full. American football - both pro & college) is already our passion (it replaced baseball about 30 years ago) and NASCAR is probably #2 in most parts of the country. Then there's baseball & basketball- both pro & college. Hockey has appeal in some areas of the country. Tennis and golf have definite upscale niches. After that there's not much room left in our psyche for another major sport. Soccer kind of gets grouped into that category of sports like volleyball or lacrosse or Greco-Roman wrestling- things that our kids might play in school, but we're not going to watch on TV or pay to see in a stadium. Again, I'm not sure why it sortrd out that way, but that's the way it is and I don't see soccer cracking that top tier of spectator sports any time soon.

Like drjimmy, I'm also a big Orangemen fan. Personally, I really hate this. Just from the standpoint of Syracuse, they seem to be doing something that will hurt every sport except football, and they aren't even a football school. It's probably a wash for the (National Champion) basketball team, as I don't really think the ACC is that much of a step up from the Big East b-ball wise. (I'm sure many here will beg to disagree.)

It also doesn't seem like a good deal for most of the schools involved. It will increase travel costs for everyone, dilute natural rivalries, has no real potential to create new rivalries (Boston College vs. Clemson, anyone?) and destroy years of tradition at many schools. It seems to me that college sports is all about traditions and rivalries and decades old grudge matches. If they start tinkering with that in pursuit of a short term "Superconference" windfall, they might wind up killing the goose that laid the golden egg in the first place.