On Regeneration

http://www.reformed.org/documents/index.html?mainframe=index_docu.html ^ | 5/3/02 | George Whitefield

[RnMomof7]

Unless a man is Born again He can not see the kingdom of God...For discussion

[RnMomof7]

Bump

[Jerry_M]

You didn't waste any time.

;>)

[RnMomof7]

It is, doubtless, for this reason, that the apostle declares it to be the irrevocable decree of the Almighty, that "without holiness, (without being made pure by regeneration, and having the image of God thereby reinstamped upon the soul) no may shall see the Lord." And it is very observable, that our divine Master, in the famous passage before referred to, concerning the absolute necessity of regeneration, does not say, Unless a man be born again, he SHALL NOT, but "unless a man be born again, he CANNOT enter into the kingdom of God."

Inability Jerry...man CAN NOT...no matter though as he does not want to anyway...

[Jerry_M]

Yep, men cannot be saved without the new birth. Note, however, that this in no way invalidates the Scriptural command that all men should repent of their sin and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. You are correct that they ever will do this without the saving work of God's Spirit.

[RnMomof7]

There is an enormous amount of misreading scripture Jerry.Who seeks? Who knocks ? Mucho confusion:>))

[Freedom'sWorthIt]

Do you ever get to hear Dr. Erwin Lutzer of Moody Bible Church - in his RAdio Program: Running to Win? (I think that's the name).

It is fantastic - and I am now reading the first book mentioned in Dr. Lutzer's comments quoted below at the Moody Radio Ministry website:

Here are some comments from him at that website:

"How You Can Be Sure That You Will Spend Eternity With God will enable people to see that we are saved by a sovereign work of God and can be brought to full assurance of faith."

One Minute After You Die has already been used by God to bring men and women to saving faith in Christ. This book explains what the Bible has to say about the eternal destinations of both believers and unbelievers."

If people are more into hearing than to reading the posts here - I would suggest they find a radio station that carries this program and tune in.

[fortheDeclaration]

It is, doubtless, for this reason, that the apostle declares it to be the irrevocable decree of the Almighty, that "without holiness, (without being made pure by regeneration, and having the image of God thereby reinstamped upon the soul) no may shall see the Lord." And it is very observable, that our divine Master, in the famous passage before referred to, concerning the absolute necessity of regeneration, does not say, Unless a man be born again, he SHALL NOT, but "unless a man be born again, he CANNOT enter into the kingdom of God." Inability Jerry...man CAN NOT...no matter though as he does not want to anyway...

It is a real stretch to try and make that passage teach regeneration before faith. It is not teaching that at all.

As for inability

Lord, thou hast heard the desire of the humble, thou wilt prepare their heart, thou wilt cause thine ear to hear (Ps.10:17)

God knows those who wants to know and will provide the light to make a decision (2Cor.4:6).

Cornilus was a devout man who was not yet a believer, yet he was seeking God and God led him to Simon Peter to receive the Gospel and make a decision to believe or not

[RnMomof7]

FTD...Scripture is clear that
There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. Rom 3:11

No man CAN NOT seek the kingdom because He is unwilling and unable to.

[hupo ekcheo charis]

grace bump!

pas pisteur hoti lesous esti Christos gennao ek theos

"Game, set, and match" for that gospel affectionately known by the grace men as Calvinism.

Cheers,

"under shed grace"

[fortheDeclaration]

FTD...Scripture is clear that There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. Rom 3:11 No man CAN NOT seek the kingdom because He is unwilling and unable to.

The scripture is also clear that man is commanded to seek God (showing that he can ) Acts. 17:30, and that men in the Bible have sought God, as in the case of Cornilius.

Now, when you have cases like that you must reconcile the verses, not ignore the ones you do not like!

In Rom.3:10-18 it discusses the fact that the Jew is as bad as the Gentile. Now, when you read the passage, is every individual guilty of the things listed? Were your feet 'quick to shed blood'?

In fact, unbelievers are often stated to have integrity and do the right thing

And God said unto him in a dream, yea, I know that didst this in the integrity of thy heart (Gen.20:6)

Abimelech knew adultery was wrong and pleads with God that he did what he did in ignorance. God agrees with him! Moreover, God is speaking to an unregenerate man without first regenerating him (so a man 'dead in his sins' can communicate with God if God wants to do so, he spoke with Cain also )

If you are just going to proof text your way through scripture then you are going to have to ignore a lot of Scripture that runs against what you are teaching.

[ThomasMore]

FIRST, Only by an outward profession. And in this sense, every one that is called a Christian, or baptized into Christ's church, may be said to be in Christ. But that this is not the sole meaning of the apostle's phrase before us, is evident, because then, every one that names the name of Christ, or is baptized into his visible church, would be a new creature. Which is notoriously false, it being too plain, beyond all contradiction, that comparatively but few of those that are "born of water," are "born of the Spirit" likewise; to use another spiritual way of speaking, many are baptized with water, which were never baptized with the Holy Ghost.

This is an erroneous view of regeneration. Show me any early Christian writing that agrees or promotes this view.

[RnMomof7]

So Thomas do you belive that everyone that is baptised is in heaven?

[CCWoody]

Accordingly the holy scriptures inform us, that whom Christ justifies, or whose sins he forgives, and to whom he imputes his perfect obedience, those he also sanctifies, purifies and cleanses, and totally changeth their corrupted natures. As the scripture also speaketh in another place, "Christ is to us justification, sanctification, and then redemption."

Now, I wonder where Whitfield would get an idea like that. Accordingly the holy scriptures inform us, that whom Christ justifies,... he imputes his perfect obedience...

[ThomasMore]

NO. But it sounds to me like you are lumping regeneration and salvation into one neat little package.

So you tell me when a person is regenerated!

[RnMomof7]

I believe that as a Catholic you would in effect believe in baptismal regeneration correct? Namely that the sacrament removes "original sin" and makes it possible to hear and respond to the gospel.

[oremus]

So one cannot hear and respond to the Gospel if one is not yet Baptized?

[winstonchurchill]

this in no way invalidates the Scriptural command that all men should repent of their sin and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. You are correct that they ever will do this without the saving work of God's Spirit.

Back to the old shell game. "All men should repent" but only a few can do so (i.e. are capable of doing so) because God prevents the others from repenting because he damned them, yada, yada, yada. How Clintonian.

The distinction is not that they will "[n]ever will do this without the saving work of God's Spirit" but that you guys say that saving work just isn't available to them. Too bad for them.

I realize this is the age of euphemisms, but why not be intellectually honest enough to simply state your view and let everyone see it for what it is.

[RnMomof7]

I believe that Catholics believe in Baptisimal regeneration correct? That is MY question:>))

[RnMomof7]

We believe it is a sovereign act of God that preceeds salvation....and you??