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To: AgThorn
I wholeheartedly agree, Ag, and really get frustrated at these folks here who scream vehemently against this. I see nothing in this card which violates our privacy...everything there is already known by the government or by our banks or by our credit card companies or even telemarketers.

He's suggesting it be voluntary for citizens--hello? Is anybody reading the whole article before they start foaming at the mouth? He's also suggesting it be mandatory for non-citizens.

Are these people here who are suggesting that all we have to do is enforce our borders better and we can solve this problem the same ones who are in another thread screaming about how we should close our borders and stop letting Syrians come over here to flight school? Well, to you delusional folks out there who think that these people can't just 'sneak' in somewhere along the massive Canadian border (or even perhaps at one of the unmanned border stations), I hope your right not to have an ID card makes you feel all warm and fuzzy and safe at night.

It would make me feel better to know that anyone trying to wire money overseas, or check into a hotel, or get on a bus or a plane or a train, or rent an apartment would be randomly subject to showing their national ID card as a matter of proof of their right to be in our great nation. I would proudly display mine right next to my driver's license, and never ever feel like I was doing anything other than my patriotic duty to show my absolute right to be here as an American-born citizen. For everybody else, it's a privelege to be here, and with priveleges come responsibility and obligations.

15 posted on 10/18/2001 8:07:46 AM PDT by erkyl
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To: erkyl
He's suggesting it be voluntary for citizens--hello?

It would make me feel better to know that anyone trying to wire money overseas, or check into a hotel, or get on a bus or a plane or a train, or rent an apartment would be randomly subject to showing their national ID card

[FADE IN to Bill Clinton sitting at a mahogany desk, in a setting somewhat similar to the Oval Office.]

Have you been caught in a lie because you just couldn't keep your stories internally consistent? I can help you! With just a few weeks' study at Clinton College, you, too, can be such an expert liar that you'll always be able to get away with it!

19 posted on 10/18/2001 8:18:59 AM PDT by steve-b
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To: erkyl
I see nothing in this card which violates our privacy...everything there is already known by the government or by our banks or by our credit card companies or even telemarketers.

In case you haven't been paying attention, privacy advocates have decried these for years. So now you want to use previous losses of privacy to justify further losses of privacy. Later, when the next Big Brother scheme comes up, the same thing will be repeated - "Why not have biometric cameras in every public place, national ID's track your every move anyway". This is called the Slippery Slope, and WE DRAW THE LINE RIGHT HERE.

It would make me feel better to know that anyone trying to wire money overseas, or check into a hotel, or get on a bus or a plane or a train, or rent an apartment would be randomly subject to showing their national ID card as a matter of proof of their right to be in our great nation.

It would make me feel like a character in 1984, or a peon in some Iron Curtain Soviet Republic. It would make me ashamed to live in such a nation that no longer respects privacy or freedom.

It would make me feel better to know that anyone trying to wire money overseas, or check into a hotel, or get on a bus or a plane or a train, or rent an apartment would be randomly subject to showing their national ID card as a matter of proof of their right to be in our great nation.

I'm not interested in living in a police state so you can 'feel better'. Go right ahead and carry whatever ID you want, just don't think you can force it on others.

20 posted on 10/18/2001 8:19:02 AM PDT by freeeee
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To: erkyl
I feel the idea is wonderful. Those that have never had a credit check show something wrong raise your hand. We are approaching the time where everything is going to be wired anyway. Do you think your phone calls are private? Do you know they know who is calling who. This data is already passed.

The Oracle Co is the greatest DB in the world. This company can do anything. By the way, the software needed to check an ID could be written in Java and anyone could verify the card. Which means anyone with the Internet could be helping keep our citizens safe.

21 posted on 10/18/2001 8:20:22 AM PDT by Baseballguy
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To: erkyl
I would proudly display mine right next to my driver's license, and never ever feel like I was doing anything other than my patriotic duty to show my absolute right to be here as an American-born citizen. For everybody else, it's a privelege to be here, and with priveleges come responsibility and obligations.

Awww...What a good little german you are. You may board the bus to Dresden now where you'll be safe.

25 posted on 10/18/2001 8:29:08 AM PDT by Wm Bach
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To: erkyl
I know I'll feel better knowing that my tax dollars go to support yet another bloated federal bureaucracy. That I could be stopped at anytime and forced to present my "papers", and if I forgot them at home I'll be detained until my identity is secure. That the government will know to where I travel and what I purchase. That one day the police may knock on my door and say, "You were buying a bus ticket next to the bank 5 minutes before it was robbed. Present yourself immediately for questioning".

Yep, I'm feeling a whole lot better.

32 posted on 10/18/2001 8:49:10 AM PDT by NittanyLion
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To: erkyl
While it would be fine to card foreign nationals, it is against my religion (Christian) to accept any card or number such as the one discussed, due to text in Revelations.I can't help but wonder if 'voluntary' for citizens would remain so.
39 posted on 10/18/2001 9:07:03 AM PDT by angry beaver norbert
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To: erkyl
It would make me feel better to know that anyone trying to wire money overseas, or check into a hotel, or get on a bus or a plane or a train, or rent an apartment would be randomly subject to showing their national ID card as a matter of proof of their right to be in our great nation. I would proudly display mine right next to my driver's license, and never ever feel like I was doing anything other than my patriotic duty to show my absolute right to be here as an American-born citizen. For everybody else, it's a privelege to be here, and with priveleges come responsibility and obligations.

Finally, a sane person posts! thanks for the Oasis of sanity in this thread ... it's good to find another "thinker" occasionally!! ;-)

61 posted on 10/18/2001 9:26:30 AM PDT by AgThorn
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To: erkyl
Statements like yours make my skin crawl!

Guess I'll now have to remember my 67th birthday (11/26/2000) as the day when another worthless statist/socialist joined FR.

98 posted on 10/18/2001 10:17:11 AM PDT by SuperLuminal
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To: erkyl
The real issue is that aliens must be documented. I am not against a national ID because I have to show an ID all the time, even to get cash at my branch bank. I showed photo ID's three times to get on a plane in Tulsa. We need to deport and/or jail the illegals and the "student" visa aliens who never go to class because they work for Jihad.

Oracle is in trouble as a relational database company. This is their bid to be big news. IBM now has more market share with its purchase of Informix.

99 posted on 10/18/2001 10:17:23 AM PDT by Chemnitz
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To: erkyl
I see nothing in this card which violates our privacy...

You see nothing in "this card" which violates our privacy?

What card?

Cripes, it hasn't even been invented yet and you're already speaking with certainty that it doesn't violate our privacy. How the hell do you know? Basically, you appear to be in favor of a National ID Card, no matter what it is like. Does this make any sense?

He's suggesting it be voluntary for citizens--hello?

If that's all it was, then I certainly won't oppose it. But now, is there a guarantee that this "voluntary" card won't become less and less "voluntary" as time marches on?

For example, laws start getting passed saying you must have this "voluntary" card in order to ride airplanes, open bank accounts, etc., etc.?

If you could guarantee that the "voluntary" card would stay voluntary then I wouldn't be against it at all! But of course, you can't. No on can. And that's the problem.

He's also suggesting it be mandatory for non-citizens.

We already have visas and green cards and the like which are mandatory for non-citizens. So this idea is just redundant, and a waste of time and money.

Well, to you delusional folks out there who think that these people can't just 'sneak' in somewhere along the massive Canadian border (or even perhaps at one of the unmanned border stations), I hope your right not to have an ID card makes you feel all warm and fuzzy and safe at night.

You are letting the perfect become the enemy of the good. No, of course, we can't close the border perfectly, 100%, in the sense that no one can possibly sneak across in an isolated area.

But that's a straw man. We aren't even really trying to enforce the border at the moment. Let's start with that. It won't be perfect of course, but we can sure as heck do a lot better than we're doing.

By the way, would a National ID Card be a perfect way to catch illegals?

It would make me feel better to know that anyone trying to wire money overseas, or check into a hotel, or get on a bus or a plane or a train, or rent an apartment would be randomly subject to showing their national ID card as a matter of proof of their right to be in our great nation.

Sounds like what it's really about for you is control. You are obsessed with controlling other people, for some reason.

Interesting.

235 posted on 10/19/2001 2:30:51 PM PDT by Dr. Frank fan
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To: erkyl
I read your post #15 and would agree with you except for one historical fact. Government has been the largest mass murderer of the last century. Ours, in WWII imprisioned an entire race for their protection and ours. Government just simply can't be trusted with human life. Please! Do you understand?
310 posted on 10/20/2001 12:44:25 PM PDT by elbucko
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To: erkyl; AgThorn
"I hope your right not to have an ID card makes you feel all warm and fuzzy and safe at night."

Well your warm fuzzies that you'd get from a national id card are pure fantasy. Our intelligence (oxymoron?) agencies knew that Atta was suspected in terrorist activities in the Middle East. But for some reason this freak is allowed entrance into our country.

Why aren’t our Intel people making sure that ALARM bells go off when these animals enter the country let alone fly around on domestic flights repeatedly? Heck a simple database ANYONE could administer on his or her home PC could pick up that match.

But if that’s not enough in August a terrorist that enrolled in flight school was arrested after the school tipped of the Feds that the man "wasn’t interested in taking off or landing" and these same Feds have KNOWN FOR YEARS that one planned MO was the taking over of Commercial airliners and crashing them into Govt buildings. Those 2 red flags apparently weren’t enough to spur anyone to check the rosters of flight schools in the US for KNOWN terrorists?

National ID cards wont do squat with this level of competency. As in post #10:

Why is it that the solution to every problem caused by uncivilized people is to put more restrictions and regulations on the civilized? The difficulty of obtaining a reasonable firearm for self-protection by an average, law-abiding citizen is just one example

AMEN!!!!!!
491 posted on 10/27/2001 9:26:59 AM PDT by choppersrule
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