nice but no sale... i'll keep my HK91A3 if i was going to use a chine gun i'd take the HK MP5/10 so i had samey-same ammo from hand gun to SMG
Posted on 08/11/2004 5:03:29 PM PDT by 45Auto
Every once in awhile, as the editor of Defense Review, I have the rare and somewhat distinct pleasure of handling and firing a firearm that is not only brand spanking new, but actually manages to knock my socks off. Please keep in mind that I did not expect Heckler & Koch’s newest wondergun, the MP7 PDW(Personal Defense Weapon), to have such a profound affect on me. To be honest, I’ve had a few preformed ideas about the 4.6x30mm round it fires, and they haven’t exactly been positive. This is the result of two things: conversations with fairly knowledgeable people in the firearms community, and late results with the performance of the 5.56x45mm round in Afghanistan.
Truth is, most knowledgeable people that I’ve spoken with have talked rather condescendingly about PDW's in general, and the ammunition they fire, in particular. This applies to both the HK MP7 and its proprietary 4.6x30mm ball round, and FN’s P90 and their proprietary 5.7x28mm AP round. I mean, let’s face it--the fact that it’s been taking multiple 5.56x45mm M855 rounds to put some of these Al Queda guys down recently has not helped to change their views. Understand that the 5.56x45mm M855 round is a 62 grain round with a muzzle velocity between 2450 and 3100 fps, depending on barrel length. HK’s 4.6x30mm PDW round is a 26.2 grain round at 2400 fps. Of course, the HK MP7 has a much different mission profile than the M16/M4, but it’s primary purpose is still to save one’s behind when the you-know-what has really hit the proverbial fan. However, all that said and understood—man, I liked this gun! I’ll get back to this in a minute.
First, it’s important to understand the purpose of the "Personal Defense Weapon" category of small arms, and by extension, the HK MP7. PDW’s are designed to give rear-line/auxilliary combat troops and specialized units a select-fire weapon that can still lay down an impressive amount of suppressive fire, while being significantly lighter, more portable, and more concealable than an infantry rifle/carbine. Its ammunition must also be able to defeat modern battlefield body armor, which is one of its primary mandates. For instance, the HK MP7 PDW’s 4.6x30mm round was designed to be able to defeat CRISAT body armor and Kevlar Helmets out to 200 meters. After CRISAT penetration, the 4.6mm ball round will penetrate 10-12 inches of tissue. Once it defeats the armor, the round will yaw inside the target, thus creating a larger wound channel.
You get all this in a pretty lightweight package--3.8 lbs with a 20-round loaded magazine. The MP7 has a really neat design to it, too. Mark White, of Sound Technology, commented(after shooting it himself) that it reminds him of those old Transformer figures. Things fold out, snap open, and retract in Transformer-like fashion, and the weapon is just pretty neat in general. Specifically, the MP7 has a folding vertical foregrip, a nicely integrated telescoping buttstock, and pistol sights that turn into flip-up rifle sights. The pistol sights are co-witnessed with the Hensoldt red dot sight(provided on the test prototype we fired). When you want to use the rifle sights, you just flip them up and “un-ass”(short for “unassemble”) the Hensoldt. As if this isn’t enough, all the operating controls are really well laid out. Heckler and Koch must have really done their homework with regard to the human engineering aspects of the MP7. Oh, and did I mention that the MP7 looks really cool? Well, it does.
Assuming you really couldn’t care less how the MP7 looks, let’s get down to the nitty-gritty. How did the MP7 shoot? It shot great. I can honestly say it’s one of the most enjoyable experiences I've had with a firearm in a long time. Recoil was negligible. During the demonstration, Fred Yates held the MP7 out in front of him like a pistol, one handed, fired it, and the gun’s muzzle hardly moved. Once he shouldered it, it didn't seem to move at all(This can be seen in the video). When I shot the MP7 on semi-auto, from the shoulder, the light recoil actually took me a little by surprise at first, a pleasant surprise, if you will. On full-auto, the gun just stayed right on target the whole time, even during multiple-shot strings at 900 rounds-per-minute. Felt recoil impulse was roughly half that of a 9mm subgun. In fact, everyone we spoke to who shot it came away extremely impressed with it. A number of these people were seasoned SWAT operators. O.k., on to features, ergonomics, and handling qualities--let's go down the list: The MP7 shouldered very quickly. Magazine insertion was instinctive(Uzi-style), and the bolt release positioned right above the trigger area, was ambidextrous--so that control was both quick and easy to operate. The safety/selector switch was also ambidextrous and easy to manipulate with either the thumb or index finger. The magazine release, also ambidextrous, was positioned just right and operated P7/USP style--push-down, instead of push-in. The bolt retracting handle on the MP7 is AR-15/M16 style, so it was also ambidextrous, fast to manipulate, and familiar. Not that this is really important, but the gun even sounded great. The MP7 has a really nice firing report to it. You know you’re firing something interesting when you pull that trigger. I also liked how all the operational controls felt and sounded, as I manipulated them--for instance, how the magazine clicked into place positively and the bolt sounded clacking home when I chambered the first round(you can hear these sounds on the video we’ve provided with this article). Why do I mention these kinds of things? Well, they could all end up contributing to user confidence in the weapon, when it's finally made available. Of course, what would lead to the most user confidence is if the 4.6x30mm round can actually get the job done putting the bad guys down . If this turns out not to be the case, we would indeed be talking about a false sense of confidence. The ambidextrous and ergonomic control layout will definitely contribute to speed of deployment of the weapon. DefRev did not experience any malfunctions while firing the MP7, nor did we witness any problems of any sort while a number of others put the MP7 through its paces. A high round-count testing session, under adverse conditions, would of course be necessary to assess the MP7's true reliability.
In case you’re wondering how accurate the gun is, I have no idea. We were shooting at blank white targets at a distance of, I believe, 40-50 yards, a range format that was chosen for us, not by us. According to HK’s MP7 PDW brochure, however, “with it’s 7-inch barrel, the HK MP7 is capable of firing 10-shot semi-automatic groups at 45 meters of less than 2”.
So, what’s the verdict? Assuming the 4.6x30mm round can actually get the job done, I have to say I think Heckler and Koch has a real winner on their hands with this one. I really do. I see particular utility for it not only for vehicle crews and non-front-line troops, but also in the areas of dignitary protection and low-key Special Operations missions in urban areas, when protective agents or SpecOps personnel must be able to conceal a firearm(smaller than a subcarbine) that can be used to penetrate vehicle doors and body armor at distances outside a handgun's effective engagement envelope, under a jacket or vest. Of course, for dignitary protection, the weapon has to be capable of stopping a man close-in, quickly, with as few shots as possible. This is the nagging question that will remain with me until the 4.6x30mm round proves itself in combat. If the 4.6mm can't do this, the executive protection role is definitely out, and I frankly wouldn't want to see SpecOps personnel carrying it either. Theoretically, assuming the 4.6x30mm round is effective against human targets at close range, with an MP7, an operator or protective agent has a compact, controllable little select-fire, body armor-piercing package that he/she can use to effectively engage multiple attackers out to 200 meters (200 meters is the maximum operational envelope for the MP7, according to HK) . Frankly, what’s not to like about that? The HK MP7 can be slung, carried, and concealed easily under a jacket or photographer’s vest(or, even better, Royal Robbins' 5.11 Tactical Vest), or carried into combat, as a secondary weapon, in a thigh holster.
Now, will the 4.6x30mm round itself prove to be effective enough in a real CQB environment? Again, I honestly don’t know. If I said "yes" at this point, I'd simply be guessing. The round just isn’t battle-proven yet. I can tell you this though--I sure as hell wouldn’t want to get shot with it. Also, a lot of research apparently went into the development of this round, and H&K isn't exactly new at this game. If pressed, I would have to guess that the 4.6x30mm round will get the job done for its intended purpose. Let's hope. Price of admission will be around $1100 per, about the same price as a G36C, when the MP7 is made available. Unfortunately, if you're not law enforcement or military, you will not be able to purchase one. This is a shame, because the MP7 is a neat piece, and would make a nice plinking and travel gun.
By the way, the magazine we had on hand for the test shoot was a 25-rounder, which must be fairly new, since the catalogue lists the magazines at 20 and 40 rounds, respectively. 25 rounds, at 900 rpm, goes really quickly, so I would have preferred the 40 rounder, which I would recommend under most circumstances. I did like the Hensoldt red dot sight that co-witnesses with the pistol sights (although you can also use an Aimpoint, EOTech, OKO, DOCTERsight, or any other red dot/holographic gunsight you wish). The Hensoldt's red dot was very fast to acquire and the sight itself was lightweight and sized perfectly for the weapon. A number of companies will also be offering a suppressor for the MP7 in the near future. Gemtech will most likely be one of them.
Let's see, the caliber works out to about 0.181". I would like to see it's ballistics compared to the .17 Hornady rimfire. I would immagine there wouldn't be a dimes worth of difference and it might be every bit as effective as this H&K proposition.
Nice...... does it come in adult calibers?
Kewl. Where can we buy one?
nice but no sale... i'll keep my HK91A3 if i was going to use a chine gun i'd take the HK MP5/10 so i had samey-same ammo from hand gun to SMG
No thanks...I'm like you ....45 auto all the way. Make this in a .45 auto and then HK will have some customers.
Sigh. This modern generation, with it's "semi-auto" this, and "bloc clip" of "External Magazine" fed that...what's wrong with a nice Enfield? or a Springfield? *grin*
I agree- I own a Ar for fun, but I'd take either of your choices over the HK squirter for business.
Wouldn't mind playing with it though.
Interesting, because the article said as much. I heard that, in Afghanistan, the 5.56's intended for Soviet body armor didn't work well against mark 0 mod. 0 humans. Any idea?
Maybe the new 6.8 SPC round will do a better job.
I like Enfields. I would like them better if there was cheap ammo available. I like Mausers (got a Czech, a Yugo, and a Swede) and I really like my Swiss K-31.
I guess you could use the HK for your rat killin'.
"....the most challenging to overcome, and what made the G11 such a revolutionary weapon, was the issue of burst accuracy. Following a 1960s study at Frankfurt's Battelle Institute, it was determined that current methods of automatic and burst fire management were not capable of meeting the accuracy demands established by the German government.:
" Fully automatic fire generates individual recoil impulses which not only causes the rifle to rise (as the weapon pivots on the firer's shoulder), but when transferred to the shooter's body, these impulses cause the shooter's torso to rotate as well. As a result subsequent shots will be high and wide compared to the first, meaning that if the first round missed the target, all subsequent rounds would also miss the target."
On the other hand, the story of the AR series leading to the military adoption of the AR 15, actually began with the AR 10 (and some earlier models). The latter was originally considered as a replacement for the M14, but it never was a serious competitor for that rifle; but I now see that special ops units (Navy Seals, among others) do use the AR 10 extensively. The AR 10 was another rifle that was ahead of its time. The neat thing about the G 11 was the invention of "caseless ammo"; it remains to be seen what the future holds for such a weapon.
And it would appear that there are many more AR 10's in the hands of civilians than in any military outfit in the world.
nice but no sale... i'll keep my HK91A3
naaa, i've got an old Marine Corps shooting jacket i use so no problem, but, if it's the real deal... that'll be the least of my worries
From the web site where I found this picture they have the following text about this 9MM:
Jatimatic GG-95 PDW (Submachinegun): A truly unconventional weapon, the Jatimatic Personal Defence Weapon is a popular weapon with terrorist cells the world over. Commonly referred to as a machine pistol, its small size makes it perfect for hiding on one's person. While capable of automatic fire, it is difficult to control; which is why there is a forward handle attachment. A light pull of the trigger fires individual shots, while pulling the trigger all the way back (a progressive trigger) fires the weapon on automatic. A small and highly concealable weapon which is popular with thugs and terrorists.
Me, I prefer a little more punch, even than 9MM. How about a 20MM grenade launcher revolver? Not good for concealed carry, but I guarantee you that you'll stop the perp!
 |
| The above is actually a 40MM grenade launcher. The shotgun / 20MM equivalent would be a lot like the (no longer banned?) Striker, below. |
 |
And let me guess, it's 9 grand a copy.
4.6mm......grumble.
L
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.