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Donor of Ayn Rand Manuscript, U.S. Are Not on the Same Page
LA Times ^ | 3/5/2002 | BOB POOL

Posted on 03/06/2002 5:16:05 PM PST by jennyp

Edited on 09/03/2002 4:50:01 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

Ayn Rand wrote the book on the chasm between personal happiness and a heavy-handed government. Leonard Peikoff illustrated it.

That's how Rand fans say the empty picture frame on Peikoff's wall figures into the fight over two pages of her original handwritten manuscript of "The Fountainhead."

Federal officials seized the pages after Peikoff joked that he "stole" them from the Library of Congress. Peikoff, a writer and philosopher, was a lifelong friend of Rand and is an expert on her philosophy of objectivism, which teaches that individuals--not the government--are the key to the development of a healthy society. He inherited the scrawled first drafts of "The Fountainhead," "Atlas Shrugged" and two other books when she died in 1982.


(Excerpt) Read more at latimes.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: aynrandlist
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To: jennyp
"It's like when you try to apply a good analogy to areas where it shouldn't go."

Aye, there's the rub!

Being captured by one's metaphors is the perennial problem faced by all thinkers, however profound.

Troped in our own snare, so to speak. ;^)

281 posted on 03/08/2002 7:06:09 AM PST by headsonpikes
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To: ValerieUSA; yall
Rate_Determining_Step said:

Nope, it's fully formed when Mr. Sperm penetrates Ms. Egg. Madness.

Who said fully formed? No one is that dumb. What a ludicrous accusation in a serious debate. However, the genetic material for one complete individual human being is fully contained in that growing living zygote. At what point is anyone "fully formed"?

Who said anything about genetic material ? No one is that dumb. What a ludicrous accusation in a serious debate.

The legal point is, - when a "fully formed" infant is viable it can live seperated from its mother , and can be considered a legal 'person' protected by law.
Prior to viablity, any legal rights belong to the potential childs mother as they are inseparable in fact.

Why you abortion fanatics argue about this simple constitutional legal point is beyond all reason. -- Learn to live with it, for the republics sake.

282 posted on 03/08/2002 8:13:44 AM PST by tpaine
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To: jennyp
Ayn Rand?!!!

No wonder Alice Rosenbaum wasn't returning my phone calls.

I guess that's it for the fondue pot I loaned her, too.

Where would I be without FR?!

283 posted on 03/08/2002 10:12:12 AM PST by PoorMuttly
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To: ALL
Peikoff joked that he "stole" them from the Library of Congress.

Some jokes are not funny.

284 posted on 03/08/2002 4:52:48 PM PST by Spunky
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To: Aedammair
Thanks again for your kind comments. Your questions are making me explain some of my ambivalent (but mostly quite positive) feelings about Rand.

Rand understood and made clear that socialism was not only a poor economic system, leading to poverty, but that it was immoral--based on envy and on forcing someone to work for another. Orwell pointed out that in the 1920s in England, even the capitalists thought that socialism was more moral and probably likely to triumph eventually. Von Mises, Hayek, and Rand did more than anyone else to change that feeling. Further, her defense of capitalism was more moral than economic.

She also understood the creeping socialism that we actually face and the logic of the government bureaucrats in ways that reveals their corruption. Her villains are much better drawn than her heroes.

No one has ever made more concrete the seemy side of government compassion. Others have questioned the motives of those who push government compassion as opportunistic, but no one has made these views look horrible and disgusting to the extent that Rand does.

The primary problem with Rand's main characters are that they are Supermen or Superwomen. Even when they are flawed, the flaws don't seem very human. The extreme libertarians that I know are much more complex people than Rand's characters. So Rand understood the human effects of collectivism and conveys them well, but she does a poor job of painting the inner life of her heroes, who look somewhat cartoonish in their heroism. Real people, even extreme principled libertarians, are far more complex than Rand's heroes.

Also, the long speeches are so tedious that the books come to a screeching halt, rather than being the clear brilliant statements they are intended to be. The rape-based sex and submission sex are creepy too.

285 posted on 03/08/2002 8:37:46 PM PST by Hagrid
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To: Hagrid
I've heard that the real John Galt had a club foot, but that Rand deliberately left that out of her magnum opus. And she also neglected to mention his squeaky, high-pitched voice.
286 posted on 03/08/2002 9:47:10 PM PST by Misterioso
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To: Misterioso
I've heard that the real John Galt had a club foot, but that Rand deliberately left that out of her magnum opus. And she also neglected to mention his squeaky, high-pitched voice.

Was there a real John Galt? Who is John Galt?

There was a real Howard Rourke--Frank Lloyd Wright. Wright was short and built houses with low ceilings because they were for normal sized people. Rourke, as I recall, was tall and handsome.

287 posted on 03/09/2002 9:00:45 AM PST by Hagrid
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To: Hagrid
Thanks a lot for taking the time to offer your excellent insights. I think I might have to give Ayn a second look because of them.

Oh, and by the way, the rape/sex scenes are indeed creepy, and even more than that they hint at an affinity for clearly defined male/female roles, which seem at great variance with Ayn's persona. Creepy and odd.

Thanks again Hagrid, you'd make a great teacher.

288 posted on 03/09/2002 5:15:58 PM PST by Aedammair
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Comment #289 Removed by Moderator

To: jamesbond
Of course she was "pro choice"! That is Rand- man is nothing more than there monetary worth. There is nothing higher in her world or Libertarians world. Man is a commodity to be sold, traded or killed. To be a libebertarian is to be beholden to an "ism" just as those who followed Marx where beholden.

Man is not a commidity. Libertarians are not conservatives and never will be.

290 posted on 03/09/2002 6:12:27 PM PST by Burkeman1
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To: Misterioso
If I believe in Christ and his Divinity, it logically follows that I believe in God.

L

291 posted on 03/09/2002 8:33:03 PM PST by Lurker
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To: Lurker
But how do you deal with the conflict between faith and reason as it is defined by Ayn Rand? That is my question.
292 posted on 03/09/2002 11:32:45 PM PST by Misterioso
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To: eddie willers
Neat logo, eddie!

I just came upon this thread...lots of nasty people posting.

293 posted on 03/10/2002 2:56:22 PM PST by RJCogburn
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To: Hagrid
She was very strange and her personal actions were sick. Some of her supporters say that she was a bit nuts on the prescription drugs she was taking.

Interesting...I did not know that some had that opinion. I think it was Barbara Brandon's book that mentioned her long time use of amphetamines for weight control. I wondered at the time who her physician was since amphetamines loose their weight control effect with chronic use and she was on them for years, according to the writer.

No question, on the other hand, that chronic amphetamine use has some potential adverse effects on mood, etc. Add that to the fact that her reported depression and most 'bizarre' behaviour occurred in her perimenopausal and menopausal years, when we know that some women have adverse mood effects presumably due to the drop in estrogen levels, and you have a rational, physical basis for her personal actions that some have criticized.

She remains for me a heroine and extraordinary person.

294 posted on 03/10/2002 3:04:45 PM PST by RJCogburn
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To: Burkeman1
You really need to do some homework.

Click here and read for a few hours.

Then come back and try again.

295 posted on 03/12/2002 9:45:41 PM PST by lynn madison
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To: Jolly Rodgers
She was not "pro-abortion," she was "pro-choice." Who in their right mind would WANT to have an abortion, if they could avoid it? To my knowledge, she never had an abortion. (If she had, I'm sure one of her critics would have brought it out by now.) During her child-bearing years, abortions were illegal and quite dangerous. I imagine she did what other intelligent women did -- use birth control.
296 posted on 03/12/2002 9:53:01 PM PST by lynn madison
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To: Little John
No, you're not at all slow. The more you understand her philosophy, and the more you see examples of what she predicted come true in the real world (both in the people you know, and the news of the world at large), the more her writing gets to you emotionally. Many people think her writing and characters are "stiff," just because they don't go emoting at the lowest level all over the place. (This is what they're used to in popular novels.) However, once you come to understand the values the characters hold, and how the events in the story relate to those values, you understand how emotional the characters really are.
297 posted on 03/12/2002 10:02:42 PM PST by lynn madison
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To: Lurker
The best thing to read to understand why Objectivism and religion are incompatible is Rand's essay entitled "Faith and Force," which I believe is in the book, "Philosophy: Who Needs It," available at your local bookstore.

We now return to our regularly scheduled program.

298 posted on 03/12/2002 10:12:00 PM PST by lynn madison
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To: Misterioso
This may take a while, so I'll get back to you when I have more time.

L

299 posted on 03/13/2002 2:41:09 PM PST by Lurker
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To: lynn madison
She was not "pro-abortion," she was "pro-choice."

Semantics and euphamism intended to hide the fact that abortion is murder. If you've read her non-fiction works, then it would be quite clear that she was very pro-abortion.

Who in their right mind would WANT to have an abortion, if they could avoid it?

Apparently there are quite a large number of women who WANT to have abortions. After all, nobody is dragging them into the clinics to have their children ripped out of the womb.

To my knowledge, she never had an abortion.

As I said, it is mere speculation on my part.

(If she had, I'm sure one of her critics would have brought it out by now.) During her child-bearing years, abortions were illegal and quite dangerous. I imagine she did what other intelligent women did -- use birth control.

Using birth control is certainly preferable to child murder.

300 posted on 03/13/2002 9:02:08 PM PST by Jolly Rodgers
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