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Stop the universe, it's leaving us behind (faster-than-light expansion)
Sydney Morning Herald ^ | 3/21/02 | Richard Macey

Posted on 03/20/2002 6:47:11 AM PST by dead

Wave goodbye to the universe. The expansion of the universe, which began about 15 billon years ago with the Big Bang, is mysteriously getting faster, Australian and British astronomers say.

However, they admitted yesterday they did not have a clue what "dark energy" was driving the galaxies to defy gravity and fly apart with ever increasing speed.

"We don't understand the physical process," said Matthew Colless, of the Australian National University.

But, "eventually the universe will accelerate so rapidly the more distant galaxies we can see today will move away faster than the speed of light and will disappear over the horizon."

Expansion faster than light is possible because, not only are galaxies flying apart at extraordinary speeds, but space itself is expanding, carrying the galaxies away with it.

Until 1998 astrophysicists were debating whether gravity was slowing the expansion enough to eventually cause the universe to collapse in a Big Crunch.

That year other astronomers, including Brian Schmidt, of the ANU's Mount Stromlo Observatory, near Canberra, produced the first solid evidence that the expansion was accelerating.

Studying exploding stars, they found that the more distant ones were fainter - and thus further - than seemed possible. They concluded an accelerating universe was to blame.

"It was a huge surprise," Dr Schmidt recalled yesterday. "I was rather scared to go out and tell people. I thought they'd laugh me off the planet."

Dr Colless, one of the first he told, was "shaking his head".

The new project, involving the ANU, the University of NSW, the Anglo-Australian Observatory near Coonabarabran, and British scientists, led by Cambridge Professor George Efstathiou, used a different method to reach the same finding.

They spent five years mapping the position and speed of 220,000 galaxies. They then compared the data with microwave radio charts of other scientists to "map" the universe as it was 150,000 years after the Big Bang - before the first galaxies even lit up. They found that only an accelerating universe would have allowed it to grow to today's size.

"Now we have two independent pieces of evidence that both give exactly the same answer," Dr Colless said. "I didn't believe Brian at first ... you have to rearrange the mental furniture."

While most galaxies would vanish from view, the Milky Way, and its nearest neighbours, glued together by gravity, would travel on alone. Dr Schmidt said the confirmation was "great news for me. I can sleep a little better. It's evidence we didn't screw up four years ago."


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events
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To: Henchster
Is the universe infinite?
61 posted on 03/20/2002 7:52:18 AM PST by NC_Libertarian
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To: RadioAstronomer
OK, I believe I understand you, but like most people, my mind is still mostly "Newtonian". Einstein makes my head hurt.

By the way, on your link, what are the units for speed of light? kmh can't be kilometers per hour - that's too slow.

62 posted on 03/20/2002 7:54:08 AM PST by HeadOn
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To: Williams
Take your pills. You are starting to repeat yourself.
63 posted on 03/20/2002 7:54:38 AM PST by js1138
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To: concerned about politics
"Ever wondered what happens if you disturb a black hole?"

"All things, by immortal power, near or far
Hiddenly to each other linkèd are;
That thou cans't not touch a flower
Without troubling a star."
--Francis Thompson, The Mistress of Vision

64 posted on 03/20/2002 7:56:06 AM PST by boris
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To: NC_Libertarian
"Is the universe infinite?">

Nope Just had dinner at the restaurant at the end of it last week (Or many Billions of years in the future... depending on your perspective)

65 posted on 03/20/2002 7:56:12 AM PST by Mad Dawgg
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To: HeadOn
kmh can't be kilometers per hour - that's too slow.

LOL! Didn't even see that. Its kilometers/second!

66 posted on 03/20/2002 7:57:30 AM PST by RadioAstronomer
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To: day10
No it didn't. Sorry.

Why do you say this?

67 posted on 03/20/2002 7:58:34 AM PST by RadioAstronomer
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To: Henchster
... if it's infinite, it can't "expand," and if it's expanding, what is it expanding into?

It's not infinite. There is a theoretical end to the known universe.

It is expanding like a balloon expands, everything goes farther out, and individual galaxies move farther away from each other as the universe expands. The essential qualities of space include: gravity, the strong force, the weak force and electromagnatism. Without these forces, time and space cannot exist.

68 posted on 03/20/2002 8:00:17 AM PST by powderhorn
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To: js1138
Take your pills. You are starting to repeat yourself.

No he isn't. That's just a reflection of his first post, like those galaxies in post 47...

69 posted on 03/20/2002 8:01:47 AM PST by HeadOn
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To: RadioAstronomer
I believe in Creation by an Intelligent Higher Power - God.
70 posted on 03/20/2002 8:02:06 AM PST by day10
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To: powderhorn
"It's not infinite. There is a theoretical end to the known universe."

So what's on the other side? You know, the "non-universe" side?

71 posted on 03/20/2002 8:03:52 AM PST by Henchster
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To: Henchster
"So what's on the other side? You know, the "non-universe" side?"

New Jersey

72 posted on 03/20/2002 8:05:10 AM PST by Mad Dawgg
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To: dead
I guess this should put the final nail in the coffin of the "big bang" theory, since if one solves this function in reverse, the initial velocities would have to have been negligible.

My guess is that this theory will get swept under the astronomic rug.

73 posted on 03/20/2002 8:05:30 AM PST by editor-surveyor
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To: Lokibob
According to relativity you cannot travel the speed of light if you have mass. But lets assume you mean .999 the speed of light.

Interestily what relitiviy predicts is that you would see you tail lights function as normal. However the light from all the stars in front of you would be squished and you would they would see a shift to blue.Ligth from stars in the rear would appear to be streched out and would appear to be more red.

Unlike most star trek movies you would still see the stars appear to be relitively stationary. If astronomers are correct in saying that the the nearest start is many light years away that it would still take many years for you to pass that star while the surrounding starts would have moved so little you would hard pressed to notice.

74 posted on 03/20/2002 8:08:49 AM PST by LaFontaine
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To: Mad Dawgg
"New Jersey."

LOL! Damn, I just lost $5 to my friend here, I said it was Hope, Arkansas.

75 posted on 03/20/2002 8:08:55 AM PST by Henchster
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To: Mad Dawgg
Thanks for relieving me of my responsibility - There's always one in every crowd, but usually it's ME!

Have a great day.

76 posted on 03/20/2002 8:09:37 AM PST by HeadOn
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To: RadioAstronomer ; VadeRetro
Could there be a very simple explanation for the speeding up of the rate of expansion? Every second since stars started fusing they have been turning a small portion of their mass into energy. The less mass, the less gravity. That means that the total amount of gravitational force in the universe has been constantly decreasing since the time the first stars began shining. So the breaking force of gravity has been getting constantly weaker since that time.

In addition, I understand that black holes have a gravity well that is not that wide, but exceptionally steep once entered. Perhaps this configuration means that most of its own gravity is swallowed up at long distances.

Ordinary stars may pull on every other object in the universe, but black holes only pull (with their full strength) on things inside their event horizons. Things outside are pulled on with a quantum tithe of gravitry, i.e.- Only those gravity "waves" able to escape the event horizon due to the fluctating nature of the quantum world near the edge of the event horizon.

Whut U ThAnk?

77 posted on 03/20/2002 8:11:30 AM PST by Ahban
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To: all
The speed of light can only be exceeded by "bad news". Nothing in the universe is faster.
78 posted on 03/20/2002 8:14:50 AM PST by Musketeer
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To: day10
"I believe in Creation by an Intelligent Higher Power - God."

Ditto! But couldn't the Big Bang have been God's Way of starting the Ball rolling and further how does the Cow Flatulence/GlobalWarming/Oceans Rising theory fit into god's plan?

Like I've said before "Cows Farting and causing the Oceans to rise and wipe out New York City, L.A., and San Francisco seem very comforting."

79 posted on 03/20/2002 8:16:34 AM PST by Mad Dawgg
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To: day10
ok
80 posted on 03/20/2002 8:17:57 AM PST by RadioAstronomer
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