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University of Minnesota Press book challenges anxiety about pedophilia
Newhouse News Service ^ | Mar 26, 2002 | Mark O'Keefe

Posted on 03/26/2002 3:52:47 PM PST by jgrubbs

Edited on 04/13/2004 3:36:22 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

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To: Calico Cat
I doubt that pedophilia will ever achieve societal acceptance.

I sure hope you're right.

One of the things I find disturbing about the article is the idea that rightness or wrongness of pedophilia depends on whether it causes other horrors later in the lives of the affected children. It undoubtedly does cause lasting harm in the lives of many children. But, God willing, other victimized kids grow up into stronger, more moral, adults for having overcome a harrowing childhood. So what. Evil is evil.

21 posted on 03/26/2002 4:25:09 PM PST by Steve Eisenberg
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To: RAT Patrol
The article is so poorly written that I don't have a clue what the study says. If you are saying that Sullivan thinks there is nothing wrong with adults having sex with prepubescent children, or at least in some contexts, then you need to work on your reading skills.
22 posted on 03/26/2002 4:26:14 PM PST by Torie
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To: jgrubbs
This is actually old news. It has been promoted for many years. Incest has also been promoted by similar "academics at mainstream universities."
23 posted on 03/26/2002 4:27:33 PM PST by Chemnitz
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To: Torie
Be in denial if you wish.

He did not specifically say "pre-pubescent" that I remember. He just said that adult-child sex isn't always negative, and that it is in fact sometimes positive. He specifically sited the Rind study.

I am going on recall but I can tell you are blocked to this bit of truth. Anyway, I told you a long time ago I would look for it but I haven't found a good and thorough archive of Sullivan columns. I think it was about a year ago.

24 posted on 03/26/2002 4:29:31 PM PST by RAT Patrol
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To: jgrubbs
Well, the concept is not entirely off base. When life-spans were much shorter, marriage at sexual maturity - 13 or 14, was not out of the ordinary, even in the US. 

The idea that some sexually mature 13 year-olds are also mentally mature enough for a sexual relationship is sound however, there aren't enough people like that to justify a lowering of the age of consent....not by any means.  When I say "some" I think we might be talking about .05% of the population....at the most.

On the other hand, I think the article is more talking about "Sex with a child" i.e. someone who is not sexually mature.  That's pedophilia, in all circumstances, and it should never be tolerated.

25 posted on 03/26/2002 4:29:37 PM PST by Psycho_Bunny
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To: jgrubbs
bump
26 posted on 03/26/2002 4:33:55 PM PST by VOA
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To: jgrubbs
I can hear it now--"Hey dad! How come I can have sex with the guy next door but I can't drink a beer?".

I think that something will actually come of this. The powerful prey on the weak and as the sexually deviant become more politically powerful in this nation their will be done. Watch our yellow-bellied politicians smile into the camera as they announce that they dropped the Age of Consent "for the good of the children". I'm picturing Trent Lott proudly announcing, "If it weren't for the Republicans our 13 year olds would be in danger of sexual predators. We're proud that we held the Age of Consent to 13.5 years old".

27 posted on 03/26/2002 4:34:06 PM PST by randog
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To: jgrubbs
We've all known this was coming. Step by step, remove all morals. Nothing is off the list forever, only off the list so long as the sheep would be scandalized by it.

>>>>>Those making the case aren't just fringe groups, such as the North American Man-Boy Love Association, but a handful of academics at mainstream universities.

Given that NAMBLA wouldn't ever release its membership list, one is left wondering how frequently these two groups overlap.

patent

28 posted on 03/26/2002 4:34:14 PM PST by patent
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To: Argus;jgrubbs;scholar; colorado tanker
There is no reason to be that fatalistic. If we take a slightly longer perspective than our own brief time on this earth, we can see the cycles of society and gain a more hopeful perspective. Just as an example, the English went from a licentious society in the 1700s to a very moralistic and straight-laced society in the Victorian era of the 1800s. “For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction” is true not just in physics but also on sociology.

One of the most hopeful factors in favor of the reaction we are looking for is the overthrow of the “gatekeepers.” That is what I call the mainstream media who have, for the past half-century dominated and controlled the flow of information. They were able to define the terms of debate and marginalize the dissident by excluding them from the public forum. The right felt isolated, as the left’s voices were the only ones heard.

Thanks to this magic medium were a using right now – the Internet – the right is no longer unheard and frozen out of the public forum. Look what just a handful of Freepers are doing by communicating, and then going out into the street and demonstrating. Twenty years ago the idea of a conservative demonstration would have been considered an oxymoron. Even I, during the last election went to a street corner with my wife waving a SoreLoserman sign.

Remember, dispair is not just a sin, it is unnecessary.

29 posted on 03/26/2002 4:41:52 PM PST by moneyrunner
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To: jgrubbs
Are these the same professors who have been giving an "A" for a lay to teenage girls in their classes for years and are now looking for a way to rationalize it?
30 posted on 03/26/2002 4:44:07 PM PST by ThinkLikeWaterAndReeds
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To: moneyrunner
I hope you are right. But if I honestly look at Western society right now from a "megatrend" perspective, I have to conclude the sexual revolution is continuing its expansion. Where will they go next after securing approval for homosexual sex?
31 posted on 03/26/2002 4:51:09 PM PST by colorado tanker
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To: Argus
This is yet another example of the one-way ratchet in the decline of civilization. All change is in the direction of more depravity, and nothing ever changes back in the opposite direction.

So much for hoping the moral pendulum was beginning to swing back in the other direction.

32 posted on 03/26/2002 4:54:48 PM PST by softengine
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To: moneyrunner; Landru
the English went from a licentious society in the 1700s to a very moralistic and straight-laced society in the Victorian era of the 1800s.

This has the potential for a great discussion. First, I will preface my statement by saying I appreciate your positive attitude.

Yes, the Victorian Era was very straight-laced, to the point of absurdity I might add, but do you really think that the evil doers represented a smaller percentage of that society, or were they just less visible?

33 posted on 03/26/2002 5:14:35 PM PST by scholar
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To: RAT Patrol
Yep, I don't believe a word of it. He may have been talking about adult sex with adolescents. Not that I agree with that either, unless the ages are pretty close, but that just isn't in the same league, at all.
34 posted on 03/26/2002 5:15:33 PM PST by Torie
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To: colorado tanker
” Where will they go next after securing approval for homosexual sex?”

Well, the larger society already approves of homosexual sex; or, at least, does not dare to voice loud disapproval. I refer you to Dr. Laura as exhibit A.

But here is a hopeful sign: the discussion of the exploitation of boys by Catholic priests. Initially, the media referred to the actions of the priests as “pedophilia.” Now, thanks to the Internet, a few mainstream publications are starting to tell the truth: most of the youngsters that were victimized were not pre-pubescent boys but were teen-agers from 14 to 18 years of age. The term for that is homosexual rape, and the priests in question were not pedophiles but homosexuals preying on young victims.

Of course you will not read that in a Maureen Dowd column. The far chattering classes have their own agenda, and showing homosexual exploitation of teen-agers is not on their view scope. But we are making progress. Like a blade of grass growing through a crack in the pavement, it’s only the beginning.

35 posted on 03/26/2002 5:19:16 PM PST by moneyrunner
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To: realpatriot71
I refer you to post # 35.
36 posted on 03/26/2002 5:20:32 PM PST by moneyrunner
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To: scholar
These folks are SICK.
37 posted on 03/26/2002 5:27:07 PM PST by GailA
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To: Torie
I agree it is not in the same league, Torie, I didn't think you would think it was okay. But I swear to you he said it.
38 posted on 03/26/2002 5:30:42 PM PST by RAT Patrol
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To: GailA
These folks are SICK.

No doubt! I fear our society will have to face a major downfall before the pendulum swings back.

39 posted on 03/26/2002 5:37:05 PM PST by scholar
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To: Torie
It was only a matter of time before this started. Moral relativism is capable of anything. Instead of calling them children we can call them adolescents and define adolescent as "near adult". Now who could possibly argue with adults and "near adults" engaging in "consensual" sex?

Dehumanise, rationalize and presto chango, you're not a pervert but a teacher of the art of sexuality.

40 posted on 03/26/2002 5:40:58 PM PST by jwalsh07
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