Posted on 04/09/2002 8:31:46 AM PDT by scratchgolfer
Edited on 05/26/2004 5:05:43 PM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]
Pohoretz blundered into the truth. Sharon does not work for Bush....Israel is on the U.S. payroll.
Regards
J.R.
Wow, Powell said this!?
Well, despite the fact that Powell said it, it is correct. Israel taking aid from us entitles us to a certain amount of influence, but they are not our slaves or our colony, which must always defer to us. The fact that they took many Scud hits in 1991 without responding, due to our request, conclusively demonstrates to me that we do have lots of influence. The fact that Israel always pulls its punches with the terrorists when Zinni or someone else comes from our country to arrange a cease fire or to talk peace - this also demonstrates that we have a lot of influence or control over their policy. By the way, compare Israel's actions to those of the terrorists - they step up terrorism when a negotiator arrives.
The key point is that Bush's obligation is to do what is best for the US; Sharon's responsibility is to his nation. Though we are close allies, though we give Israel lots of aid, though Israel shares valuable and sometimes vital intelligence with us, depite any other ties we may have - these are 2 independent nations. Each must, if it is to retain its independence, continue to do what it perceives to be in its own best interest. Much more often than not, our interests coincide, and there is total cooperation.
Sharon is only pursuing a war on terrorism in his nation, as we have done, are doing and will do ourselves. Bush himself said that we will go anywhere to protect ourselves - why shouldn't Sharon do the same? And, by the way, Sharon isn't going 8,000 miles away - he's doing it in his own country. What would we do if there were daily suicide bombings here by a known enemy - would we kowtow to any other nation, no matter how closely allied, and not respond in the way we thought was best? I think not, and to expect Israel and Sharon to just stop, especially when the PLO and the other terrorists still haven't even verbally committed to stop the suicide bombings, is moronic and arrogant. In fact, this is why I believe that Sharon and Bush are playing "Good cop, bad cop" with the terrorists and their supporters throughout the Arab world. Though I am somewhat taken aback by the hypocracy in some of our recent statements about Israeli withdrawal, I think that it is part of something larger and (so far) hidden.
Why is Israel the only one expected to march to our orders?
One has to wonder what Bush's response would be to calls from Israel to show restraint and pull back from areas occupied by al-Qaeda forces.
It figures!
(You've been working hard to get the truth out. Thank you.)
This isn't exactly right. The idea that Israel is a "client state" derives entirely from the fact that it simply could not exist without U.S. assistance (financial and diplomatic). It's also worth noting that even if Israel abandoned the occupied territories and allowed the creation of a Palestinian state under all of Arafat's terms, this Palestinian state would not be viable without an enormous amount of outside assitance.
This statement is based on a myth that has spread since 9/11. Osama bin Laden's hatred of the U.S. was based entirely on the U.S. military on the Arabian peninsula. He never mentioned the Palestinians until his last video when he called for Israel to withdraw from the occupied territories. In doing this he wasn't motivated by any concern for Palestinians, but by his desire to win some friends among other Arabs. You see, many Arabs who might have supported him in principle actually despised him after they learned that most of the young men who took part in his great jihad on 9/11 didn't even know they were on a suicide mission.
On September 11th, the poor, downtrodden Palestinians were heavily outnumbered by the male children of wealthy Saudis on those four hijacked flights. In fact, I believe the count was 19-0 in favor of the Saudis. Kind of odd that there wasn't a single Palestinian among them, isn't it?
The world is still a jungle- though propaganda, bribery, media manipulation and political lobbying have changed the "brute force" equation somewhat.
We all know that nations and tribal groups take and hold whatever territory they physically can. The objective "truth" of territorial claims are often just as nebulous as discerning (and propagandizing about) who is a "terrorist" and who is a "freedom fighter".
I don't oppose Israel's right to exist, or defend itself. I just don't want them doing it on my nickel, or by manipulating the American political system (lobbying and intimidation by AIPAC, ADL of B'nai B'rith, AJC, JDL, etc.) the media (which hardly ever questions American aid) or by endangering the freedom of people everywhere ("hate speech" and "hate crimes" laws, laws making it a criminal offense to question the Jewish version of the Holocaust, etc).
That famous question, "Have you no sense of decency?" must soon be asked of Israel and its worldwide support system. Is there any price to pay, any manipulation or endangerment of people and nations across the world, any crime that needs to be committed (attack on USS Liberty, Pollard's espionage [which cost the US $4-5 billion and put secrets in the hands of China and the Soviet Union], selling Phalcon radars and other weapons to China, bugging the US State Dept, assasinations, massacres by Ariel Sharon, etc. etc.) that is too high a price to pay for Israel's continued existence? If the answer to that question by people with the power to make American foreign policy, extract billions from the US taxpayer and perhaps unleash war and nuclear weapons is "No", then we are in for a lot of pain.
Also American aid to Israel is a tiny part of its overall budget.
What concerns Israel is that the US may pull political support. For example the UN votes for an economic boycott of Israel and the US does not veto the resolution. That could be devastating to the Israeli economy.
Hello Fellow Freeper!
If you take the time to read the post to which I was responding you will see the poster refers to the ADL and its influence upon my country. So it is in fact relevant.
Thanks for reading my post!!!
Best wishes!
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