Posted on 04/28/2002 6:31:59 PM PDT by dvan
Why were those Jewish employees of a moving company cheering, laughing and celebrating the attack? It seems they may have associations with Israeli intelligence.
Another question: didn't the Israeli people resort to terrorism to found their state? The attack on the King David Hotel and other attacks on Arab villages?
I'm not claiming to be an expert here, I'm just curious.
I don't trust the b---ards either.
Either the liberal media has not done a historical background check on Israel/Palestine, or they choose to ignore the blatant facts: That Arasplat emerged as a terrorist against neighboring Arab states, and he now continues his murderous ways, believing that Israel will be driven into the sea -- with the aid of the Arab countries that continue to subsidize his terrorist activities against the Jews. There is only one group these Arab countries hate worse than Arasplat, and that is Jews.
If people want on or off this list, please let me know.
Another question: didn't the Israeli people resort to terrorism to found their state? The attack on the King David Hotel and other attacks on Arab villages?
I'm not claiming to be an expert here, I'm just curious.
I will take you at your word that you are just curious, rather than a disruptor or an apologist for the Arabs.
Regarding the alleged celebrating by the "Jewish moving company," I would like to see the evidence of this - and not just "tinfoil hat" evidence, but real evidence, like numerous non-retracted stories in reputable US newspapers and magazines, as well as the same on numerous reputable US television and radio stations. I don't believe that you'll find any of that, but you will find lots of such stories about Arabs here and the Mideast celebrating the WTC massacre. Also, don't you think that the thousands of FBI and CIA employees, to say nothing of the NYPD investigators, would have gotten to the bottom of this. After all, if the real enemy was Israel, don't you think it would be easier to wipe them off the map than 21 Arab nations with over 300 million people? As for the alleged ties to Israeli intelligence, the same analysis applies. By the way, I strongly believe that this entire premise, that Israel is responsible for the WTC massacre, is simply part of the BIG LIE being perpetrated by various Arab nations and their sympathizers for the purpose of shifting the blame to the Israelis.
Regarding terrorism and the founding of the Israeli state: the King David Hotel was, indeed, a target. However, it was a target because it was British military HQ, not because it was a civilian target. Furthermore (and far more important from the perspective of morality), those responsible for that action called the British in advance to warn them of the impending explosion. They only wanted to destroy the building, not commit an atrocity. The British chose to disbelieve or ignore the warning, so dozens died. Regarding Arab villages, I will only say that the Israelis wanted to live with the Arabs, that they offered to do so before 1948 and virtually continuously since. There may have been individuals, or even relatively small units, that engaged in atrocities, but this was never official policy. Contrast that with the actions and policy of the Arabs today. Contrast that with the Arab massacres of Jews in Hebron in 1929 and throughout the area in the 1936-1939 riots. Contrast that with the Arab governments' repeated threats from 1948-1967 to "push the Jews into the sea." I think that you should get the point, if you are actually just curious.
Getting back to the topic of this thread, don't you think it rather unusual that the Israelis/Jews are blamed by virtually all of the press and most world governments merely for defending themselves? Well, it is not unusual when the nations opposing Israel are led by the Arab world, which controls much of the world's oil. It is also not unusual to see rampant anti-semitism, masquerading as anti-Israel (or anti-Sharon) statements from Europe, a continent that has brought us such wonders of morality as the Crusades, the Inquisition, multiple pogroms, expulsions and outright attempts at the genocide of not only Jews, but many other "undesireable" peoples. This miserable continent, which brought the world the "benefits" of Fascism, National Socialism, Communism and Socialism - this continent has not completely changed its stripes in only 2 generations. To be fair, many individuals have, and many governments there have expressed their unwillingness to replay the past, but you have much more of the contrary.
But let's get down to brass tacks, let's discuss whether their actions since March 29 were justified (or even long overdue): What would this nation do in similar circumstances, especially given our reaction to the WTC massacre? What would we do if terrorists from Mexico came into this country and started murdering American citizens? Oh, wait, that already happened - go back to your history books and see what we did when Pancho Villa and his henchmen started murdering Americans. To save you the time, I'll tell you: we sent half the Army into Mexico looking for the SOB, that's what. And we'd do it again. This is no different than what Israel is doing now.
I really don't get why so many folks have a deep-seated need to blame 'the jews'.
Always...'Blame the Jews'...it's a puzzle to me...I'm serious! It is a genuine puzzle!
I can understand ignorant Arabs being caught up in the propaganda war, but supposedly civilized and educated Europeans and Americans??!
The only minor consolation is that these Western dupes are too witless to be truly evil.
So your position would be that they may be too evil to be truly witless. ;^)
That's a disturbing option.
To me, Hussein is the very definition of "evil genius" in our times, and he must be eliminated ASAP.
My prayers for all.
You think wrongly. First, I don't know exactly what the "official Israeli positions" are, as I'm not an employee or agent of their government. Second, I have spent literally thousands of hours over the years reading about the history of the area, watching and reading about its then-current events, and speaking with people who know the facts first or (at worst) second hand. Unlike the media and press, I check and recheck my sources, as this area of study is filled with conflicting and biased information. I've developed my conclusions all by myself. Among those are that the Israelis, while certainly not perfect, are something over 90% correct/moral in their positions and actions, whereas the Arabs (the so-called Palestinians) and their "brother" Arabs from Egypt, Syria, etc. are, in the main, both wrong and horribly immoral in their use of means to impose their will upon Israel.
I am sorry for every person who dies in this conflict and their families.
If you refer to those who've been murdered or killed, and who've also done nothing to harm any other human being, I'm glad to hear this. You join a large group, comprised of everyone with even a shred of morality. However, I cannot share this sentiment concerning Arab terrorists who have been killed by assassination or in combat by the Israeli armed forces, or by Israeli citizens protected their lives and those of their families. I am happy that these oxygen thieves are dead, as they will murder no more.
Wouldn't it be better if each side committed to peace and an acceptable solution?
That's IT! That's the solution to the whole Mideast crisis! Boy, you really hit the nail on the head - I'm voting for you for President in 2004, because you've single-handedly discovered something that has eluded scholars of that area for nearly 100 years!
More seriously, don't you think that peace would long since have been a reality, there and everywhere else, if only each side in any conflict was committed to peace and an acceptable solution? And where have you been? How can you ignore the following FACTS?:
The Jewish leadership begged the local Arabs in the pre-1948 period to accept a shared state, with equal rights for both Arab and Jew. The local Arabs rejected this, and the non-local Arabs reacted to the declaration of Israel's independence by invading with 5 armies - armies dedicated, according to the words of their nations' leaders, to the extermination of every Jew in Israel. There is NO WAY that the Arabs of that time were committed to any kind of peace.
In 1964 the PLO was founded. Since there were no "occupied territories" to what did the "L" (Liberation) refer? Obviously, it referred to the "liberation" (i.e. destruction) of the State of Israel itself. This was and is explicitly stated in the PLO charter. By the way, Arafat committed in 1993 to change or eliminate those portions of the PLO charter that referred to the destruction of "the Zionist Entity," but has failed to even bring the matter up for a vote in the governing body of the PLO. Some committment to peace!
In 1956 and 1967 Arab provocations and threats (a blockade of Israel's only Red Sea port in both cases, and the moving of large formations of troops into Sinai and the Golan Heights, plus an actual attack on Israel's capital in 1967) forced Israel to make pre-emptive strikes. If it had not made those strikes, it would have been incredibly vulnerable to a battlefield loss, which would have meant the end of its existence. After the 1967 war, Israel publicly offered to return ALL lands captured - even East Jerusalem - in return for peace. This obvious committment to peace and an acceptable solution was, just as obviously, not so acceptable to the Arabs, who rejected it out of hand. The Arab League of that time issued the famous "Three Nos": NO recognition of Israel, NO negotiations with Israel, and NO peace with Israel. Gee, they sounded quite committed to peace - NOT!
In 2000, Israel offered the so-called Palestinians a majority of what they claimed to have wanted, and their response was not to accept it, not to make a counter-proposal, but to massively step up the amount of terrorism against mostly civilian targets. This is a side dedicated to peace, to an acceptable solution? Are you nuts?
My prayers for all.
Well, thank you. At least you got one thing right.
Do you think Palestinians would tolerate suicide bombers if they viewed their Jewish cousins as benefactors?
The current course of the Israeli government seems likely to create more support for terrorism among the Palestinians, a sad situation.
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Blame the PLO, Hamas, Islamic Jihad and all of their terrorist brethren. Their unwillingness to deal with Israel, their poisoning of the minds of the young against all Jews (not just Israel), their justification of the murder of innocent men, women, children and infants, their acquisition of weapons and explosives and their recruitment of ignorant and easily-molded young people to carry out suicide mass murders - these are the things that prevent a solution. How is it that over 1 million Arab citizens of Israel somehow manage to get along with very little in the way of violence against Israel? The simple answer is that they don't suffer from "leaders" whose activities make the Mafia look like a mutual aid society.
BTW, did you happen to read about the Israeli town in the "West Bank" that had a medical clinic attacked by terrorists in March. It seems that it rendered aid not only to the Israeli residents of the town, but also to two nearby Arab villages. Some terrorist was quoted as having said that the object of the attack was to show that cooperation between Israelis and Arabs would not be tolerated. Haven't you seen what happens to the Arabs who are alleged to have cooperated with Israel - they are drawn and quartered, with no trial! I wish that I had a link to the story, because I'd post it here. But this shows what is really going on - the Arabs who reside near Israel have no choice, because the beasts on two legs that control them won't allow for a reasonable settlement.
Do you think Palestinians would tolerate suicide bombers if they viewed their Jewish cousins as benefactors?
As pointed out above, they have no choice. Resistance to the PA by ordinary Arabs is futile - even if a particular person was brave enough to stand up to them, his family would suffer lethal consequences.
The current course of the Israeli government seems likely to create more support for terrorism among the Palestinians, a sad situation.
Possibly. However, it may also show many more Arabs the futility of trying to fight Israel. It may be like a slap in the face, something that brings a bunch of people to their senses. By the way, notice how few suicide bombing have occurred since March 29 - it is certainly an improvement over the situation before then.
I don't know the solution, though I do know what won't work. What is your suggestion as to how the Israeli government should have handled 18 months of suicide bombings, culminating in the spasm of violence at the end of March? If the answer is to negotiate with Arafat, then I will tell you that this will not work - it never has. Arafat is not a partner for peace: either he controls the terrorists (my view) and is thus not a partner, or he can't control them, in which case why should Israel talk to him?
I think that it is past time for you to blink your eye, to come out of that stupor you are in, and to get rid of those illogical preconceptions that you've got.
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