Posted on 04/30/2002 11:26:55 PM PDT by JohnHuang2
They claim otherwise. 'The Roman Orthodox Church is a member of the Standing Episcopal Conference. The oldest conference of orthodox bishops in the United States of America. Est. Anno Domini-1951. In paternal affiliation with the Ecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople.' This is from their linked 'Statement of Communion'. There is no mention of Middle East issues on the website, but there is something odd about it, including its claim to be an 'Orthodox Benedictine' group. Since it includes a denunciation of 'Caesaro-Papism', I guess that they can't stick this one on Rome.
Don't be so ready to take offense! I criticized the Catholic Church, too. We have to be willing to look at problems in our churches objectively, and the problem of fragmentation and excessive national identification is certainly an Orthodox problem.
Simply put, we've never heard of them!
And if I only had a nickel for every group that put up a website claiming to be recognized by the Ecumenical Patriarch!
Well, you're certainly making it very clear how little you understand of the Orthodox!
The Orthodox Church is ONE church. The OCA is the part of the Orthodox Church that is IN America! Get it!
If they wanted to be a solely nationalist church, then they would have selected "Orthodox Church OF America."
Begone, bigot! Your lies are recognized for what they are.
It is a covenant with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, involving their descendents. Read Jeremiah 31:35-40; Israel as a national entity has a place in the plan and economy of God FOREVER.
At the same time, a relationship with God could always be had by anyone of any race by faith in God's Word. But that doesn't erase national distinction in terms of God's unconditional covenant.
Nor is this to be confused with the church of Christ, which didn't exist until Pentecost, and which is not in any way Israel (nor is it ever so called in the Bible).
Well I didn't know what the Standing Episcopal Conference was so I did a search on it and found this -
"The Standing Episcopal Conference (SEC) - a brotherhood of independent, self-governing Hierarchs and Jurisdictions in North & South America, Europe, Australia, New Zealand & the Phillipines. Established 10 years before SCOBA by its founding jurisdiction The Holy Orthodox Catholic Patriarchate of America."
Looks like they founded this SEC themselves. LOL. Still not related to us and perhaps not to you either.
Here is a site with some more info - here
That is definitely not one of our icons and I don't know who these people are. The fact that they celebrate a western rite and/or ( according to their site) accept the celebration of a western rite conclusively eliminates them from our recognition. There is no western rite in our church, period. Not that I am trying to stick them on you either. :-)
Seeing that this outfit apparently was virtually unknown until this Palestinian Authority story, I wouldn't be a bit surprised if the whole thing was financed by Saudi Arabia. (Seeing the Saudi position on Christianity it would certainly put somebody in an embarassing position though -- LOL!)
They have a very pretty website, with lots of nice Java (I guess) scripts. Did you check out the history link on the page, it drops all kinds of names, which you are likely to make more sense of then I can. They seem to be claiming to be an offshoot of the Ukrainian Orthodox, as best as I can tell.
Yes I do see problems with nationalism in some of the Russian and Serbian Orthodox churches in this area, but not in the Greek or Antiochian churches. By this I mean some parishioners have a tendency to want to put issues like language or custom at the forefront, rather than God. It is a cultural nationalism and not a political one.
LOL!!! The wedding of rationalism to Scripture.
That wasn't the goal of Christianity.
One (Judaism) follows the letter of the law, while one (Christianity) follows the letter of grace.
I greatly appreciate the fact that you observe the biblical rituals based on the Jewish calendar (I suppose).
They follow a lunar month, while we observe the solar month in the western world.
All of the observances are great if we do them out of pure love and appreciation, instead of out of the observance of any law.
The feasts of Exodus 23 teach us much about Messianic expectation, and we can see them fulfilled in the person of Jesus.
I have never taken the Pesach Seder, but have studied it in-depth. I hope to attend one with my family in the residence of a Messianic (Jew) family one day.
I strongly believe that while we are not bound to the law, Christianity has lost the depth of some biblical understanding simply by ignoring the Jewishness (did I just make up a word?) of the Gospel.
God bless you,
Roger
You have to wonder, if they had the cash and energy to begin a church, and they want so badly to be united with us, why not just start out with us?
We have several missions in this area now, both Greek and OCA. It is not so hard to start an Orthodox mission and be a real Orthodox church.
So what's the bottom line? What is it that they did not want to do or accept, and why hasn't SCOBA acknowledged them? That's the really scary part of these Orthodox-wannabes out there. And I have seen the websites of other groups like this one, using the word "orthodox" and trying to look like us, even listing numerous links to our sites.
I don't see what should be controversial about what the arab christians above are saying. Palestine has been a prison camp for the last 30 years as far as I can tell and about 5 million people live in that prison camp. The large majority of those people are completely innocent of anything. But they are treated as though they are guilty. They cannot travel it seems, for a long time they couldn't send their kids to schools, today I understand the PA has hate schools for them. But if you grew up among those 5 million palestinians you would see the Israelis as being bad people.
Jesus did speak very negatively towards the jewish hierarchy that rejected him, read Matthew, you'll see.
I don't know. From my point of view, there is plenty to be done just getting the Ecumenical Patriarch and the Patriarch of the West to get back in communion with each other. After all, theologically we have more in common than either of us has with the Copts, and folks here are always confusing them and you (folks keep confusing liturgy with theology). Liturgy is a beautiful reflection of our faith, and there is a certain problem with history (what is a crusade or two among friends, right?), but it hopefully will not keep us apart for another thousand years.
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