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To: cva66snipe; Askel5; ppaul; ex-snook; kidd; Snuffington; Inspector Harry Callahan; JohnHuang2...
BUMP
2 posted on 05/13/2002 8:24:26 AM PDT by sheltonmac
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To: sheltonmac
Thanks for the ping.

Third Parties are the only way to impact the views of the converging direction of the establishment parties. Winning isn't getting elected, it is moving the pile on issues.

Dole wouldn't even read the grass roots platform, so the GOP nominated Bush not McCain. If Bush can't read any better than Dole, then he will have a problem. BTW since Bush ran as a conservative, there must be a dozen conservative things he has accomplished. Anyone care to mention the main 3 or 4?

17 posted on 05/13/2002 9:19:59 AM PDT by ex-snook
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To: sheltonmac
Close elections come along every few years. Especially presidential elections. In the last 100 years, the 1948, 1960 and 2000 were close elections. Third parties have had almost zero effect in those races.

A strong third party that does have an effect when it has a very charismatic candidate. Thus d Teddy Roosevelt in 1912, and Ross Perot in 1992 and 1996 had real impact.

But the logic that if A were not in the race, A's voters would vote for B is just not true. It is more likely that they don't vote at all. From the perspective of the right it appears that Gore is nearly as good for the Greens as Nader. But the Greens don't see that way. The left believes that Bush is nearly as attractive to the Libertarians as the Libertarian candidate. To the Libertarians there is zero difference between Bush and Gore. To the Naderites there was zero difference between Gore and Bush.

Third parties have an effect when they are able to paint both major parties as being identical. The true third party members really believe they are identical. Teddy Roosevelt in 1912 claimed that there was no difference between Wilson and Taft. So did Wallace and Thurmond in their third party attempts. Perot claimed that there was no difference between Bush Sr. and Clinton. Third parties never attract significant followers when the two major parties are in disagreement on their issues. Thus the conflict between Dubya and Daschle does not speak well for third party chances. All third parties disagree with the two major parties. But the issues upon which they disagree, must be one where the major parties agree, and a significant number of Americans disagree with the major parties. There is currently no such issue.

Most in the mainstream media have concluded that the Libertarians did not hurt Bush, but that Nader hurt Gore. It is not true but they believe it. As a result the MEDIA has decided NOT to cover 3rd party activities in 2002 and 2004. It will be very hard for a Green Party or Libertarian candidate to get a seconds worth of air time. You will find that all major media ignores third party activities this election cycle. They will continue to do so until the memory of the 2000 election fades.

There is no major issue to make a 3rd party popular. Third parties have to represent an attractive view neither main party accepts and they must have a very charismatic personality. Right now they have neither.

Third parties will have zero effect in the next few years. They will continue rant an rave. No one will notice.


21 posted on 05/13/2002 9:35:50 AM PDT by Common Tator
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To: sheltonmac
Will Third Parties Run to Victory Yes, increasingly so Will Third Parties Ruin Victory? No
58 posted on 05/13/2002 11:48:48 AM PDT by mrclint
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To: sheltonmac
Perot got as close as it's going to get! And he blew it for all 3rd parties for the foreseeable future.
66 posted on 05/13/2002 12:38:02 PM PDT by wingnuts'nbolts
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To: sheltonmac
I would say within the next 10-15 years yes it will happen UNLESS the GOP starts swinging back right and in the very near future. That was not the case this past POTUS election nor is Washington trying to steer that direction this election far from it looks to me. The GOP in it's lack of wisdom continues to reward those who refuse to lead with leadership positions. No bigger example in the sad state of just how bad off the GOP is than Trent and the clueless Lott who keep him as the senate party leader. He is a disgrace.

When two POTUS candidates one supposedly trying to impersonate a conservative says there is not that much difference between his and an Arch Liberal POTUS Candidates position then the GOP needs to re-think it's positions. Like many others I don't consider myself as having left the GOP I consider it has left me and any shred of Constitutional Doctrine behind.

The GOP's current take this or else attitude is wearing thin. GWB was crowned winner before most states even held a primary. Afterward all Conservative voices were silenced and Rocky Republicans took over the White House and most Cabinet positions.

Ronnie Reagan {no he wasn't perfect by any means} knew better than try this but Bush is no Reagan not by a long shot. Reagan understood he had to work with Conservatives and give them advisory positions. He as well actually bothered to listen!

I see an answer to the primary election problem. On the POTUS election alone make a national primary day the First Tuesday in August. Stop this insane nonsense of the Rocky GOP force feeding the rest of the nation it's Liberalism. I will not vote for a Rocky GOP and yes it's fine with me if a Dem wins instead. Then maybe at least a conservative might get a shot at the seat next election rather than a Rocky Liberal holding it for life.

The GOP after the 1994 wins stopped trying to change the Liberal trend in this nation and instead became a part of it. That is the fualt of GOP leadership and not Bill Clinton. Those injuries were self inflicted. Anyone taking an honest look can see as much. The GOP has dumped the Conservative and what Constitutional values it had to appease the Rocky GOP and some DEMs. When the best the GOP can do for a POTUS candidate is Bob Dole that says it all. That year the GOP sold it's soul.

If the GOP wants to stop the third party factor then it best start taking it's agenda into consideration otherwise stop crying foul each time it runs off persons who are just sick and tired of seeing the GOP self destruct itself and helping the DEM's Liberalize this nation.

But perhaps saddest of all was this past election offered some of the greatest tallent in the GOP in a century. It is clear to me there was a deliberate effort to silence the Conservative GOP this election and in this election as well. Only the inside friends or inner circle of Moderate/Liberal Republicans are getting the jobs and support since Bush took office. They are the ones making policy and their policies stink. Again this was not something Reagan would have done and I find comparisons of Bush to Reagan empty. There is no substance but just wishfull thinking and the undying desire for a legacy. Bush and the GOP needs to start reaching out to conservatives as much as they are the others. Here is a man who tells conservatives to buzz off then goes running to the Log Cabin Republicans. It was a deliberate snub IMO. A snub that continues to this day. If the GOP doen't change it has no one to blame but its leaders for it's coming downfall.

84 posted on 05/13/2002 2:51:27 PM PDT by cva66snipe
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