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Security Hole Striptease
Security Focus ^ | May 27, 2002 | Tim Mullen

Posted on 05/29/2002 8:21:28 AM PDT by Dominic Harr

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One of the most important issues of our day, in my opinion.

Software you can't see the source-code for is like food they won't let you see the ingredients list for.

Once upon a time, they wouldn't tell you what went into sausage, either.

Most food companies didn't want to publish ingredients lists. Because they don't have anything to gain, it's the consumer's problem if a product has defects. Never expect the fish-monger to yell, "rotten fish for sale".

Note: To answer up front the MS workers who call all criticism of MS 'MS Bashing', please note that Sun is also mentioned as taking a month too long to release a patch they have ready. This is also unacceptable, and Sun should be leaned on to improve.

Of course, considering the 8+ months which the article claims MS is sitting on even admitting that a problem exists -- forget actually getting a patch without public shame driving MS -- Sun smells pretty good by comparison.

But still Sun needs to be pushed to release patches when ready.

1 posted on 05/29/2002 8:21:28 AM PDT by Dominic Harr
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To: *Microsoft, *tech_index
Keep the fire to their feet.

We had to fight for food labelling, too. This is just the latest incarnation of the same problem.

2 posted on 05/29/2002 8:23:37 AM PDT by Dominic Harr
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To: Dominic Harr
Microsoft has been riding the fence between marketing a concept of "trustworthy computing" and delivering a product that caters to the least common technically proficient denominator. Most products have been specifically designed to allow anyone who can click "Next" to perform a successful installation, but when it comes to their defense of insecure default software settings, they have a matter-of-fact way of telling everyone that they should know better.

While MS may eventually own up to newly discovered defects, what gets me is this attitude thing.

3 posted on 05/29/2002 9:03:45 AM PDT by TechJunkYard
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To: Dominic Harr
Sun smells pretty good by comparison.



LMFAO. I'm looking forward, personally, to the day that Sun is delisted from the exchange.
4 posted on 05/29/2002 9:32:34 AM PDT by Bush2000
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To: Bush2000
IOW, you're looking forward to a spectacular Sunset...
5 posted on 05/29/2002 9:37:01 AM PDT by tracer
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To: TechJunkYard
While MS may eventually own up to newly discovered defects, what gets me is this attitude thing.

It is hard to imagine such an attitude, coming from the side we are on -- the side of honest businessmen.

But considering we're talking about a criminal enterprise who has had to break the law to sell their products, I think it makes perfect sense. They don't get make their money filling customer needs, they make their money thru coercion.

So their response to product defects is to try an coerce the people who know about the defects into not informing anyone of the product defects.

That's MS's "marketing" approach.

6 posted on 05/29/2002 10:10:47 AM PDT by Dominic Harr
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To: Bush2000
Truly, from your standpoint, Sun should have followed MS's lead and broken every law they could to coerce people into buying defective products.

Then again, many of us prefer an honest business to a mafia-style one, no matter how much more money the criminals make.

Besides, we'll see how well MS does over the next 5 years, now that they're going to be forced to actually obey the laws of the land, like the rest of us . . .

Ill-gotten empires tend to crumble quickly, if history is any judge.

7 posted on 05/29/2002 10:13:56 AM PDT by Dominic Harr
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Comment #8 Removed by Moderator

To: Dominic Harr
Truly, from your standpoint, Sun should have followed MS's lead and broken every law they could to coerce people into buying defective products.

Poor Sun. They whined and complained and moaned about Microsoft bundling .NET and excluding Java from Windows. And what did they do? Turned around and bundled iPlanet, J2EE, and the kitchen sink into Solaris because "middleware integration is a good idea". Go complain about broken laws to McNealy, your patron saint.
9 posted on 05/29/2002 12:00:52 PM PDT by Bush2000
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To: toddhisattva
Imagine all the MS certified people who would be unemployed if MS shipped quality product. By shipping junk, Microsoft keeps legions of pinheads somewhat employed.

Tsk, tsk. Your vitriol is simply pathetic, Toddy. Using a Mac in the corporate environment is tantamount to saying, "Would you like fries with that shake?"
10 posted on 05/29/2002 12:03:33 PM PDT by Bush2000
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To: Dominic Harr
Ill-gotten empires tend to crumble quickly, if history is any judge.

LMFAO. Crumble, my ass... MS has more cash than the top ten large-cap companies combined.
11 posted on 05/29/2002 12:05:17 PM PDT by Bush2000
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To: Dominic Harr
" Sun should have followed MS's lead and broken every law they could to coerce people into buying defective "

Instead, Sun breaks every bribery law to get politicians to beat down Microsoft instead of competing to win against them. Of course, Microsoft stands very tall despite the setting Sun, because Microsoft does have products people are willing to pay for.

Do you really think that the Windows OS is the only revenue generating product of Microsoft? Microsoft: 200+ products in 100+ countries.

P.S. I just looked at Solaris 9. Funny thing. They are including auto-update as a new feature. Considering that the feature has been around for Microsoft products for years, is Sun going to tout that as "innovation"?

12 posted on 05/29/2002 12:15:15 PM PDT by PatrioticAmerican
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To: PatrioticAmerican
Do you really think that the Windows OS is the only revenue generating product of Microsoft?

I think that MS doesn't make but a tiny fraction of their sales to consumers. 90% of MS's sales are to OEM's, retailers and corporate IT shops.

And MS is very, very guilty of using coercion to keep those from offering consumers other choices. A mountain of evidence was reviewed by MS-friendly appeals and Supreme courts.

Certainly, crime pays.

And if you're trying to sell the line that MS is the "innocent victim of a vast anti-MS conspiracy", you're going to have to go speak to other MS 'strategic partners' for sympathy.

Because pretty much everyone *not* fiscally tied to MS sees their criminal behavior!

13 posted on 05/29/2002 5:03:35 PM PDT by Dominic Harr
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To: toddhisattva
Just like the pinheads call plugging boards into a backplane "building a computer" to make it sound hard, they call their parasitic relationship to their employers "capitalism" to make it sound moral.

Kinda like how script-kiddies call VB and ASP 'programming'.

MS is the 'Brittney Spears' of software.

14 posted on 05/29/2002 5:05:05 PM PDT by Dominic Harr
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To: Bush2000
So you see no shame in blindly defending a company convicted of attacking the free market?

You do see how you're this board's MS equivilant of James Carville, I'm sure. I suppose everyone has to make a living, but I'm constantly amazed at the things some folks will do for money.

15 posted on 05/29/2002 5:15:58 PM PDT by Dominic Harr
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To: Dominic Harr
MS is the 'Brittney Spears' of software.

And I'll say it again: You're the Forrest Gump of developers.
16 posted on 05/29/2002 6:56:24 PM PDT by Bush2000
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To: Dominic Harr
So you see no shame in blindly defending a company convicted of attacking the free market? You do see how you're this board's MS equivilant of James Carville, I'm sure. I suppose everyone has to make a living, but I'm constantly amazed at the things some folks will do for money.

It's funny, Harr. When somebody pointed out their opinion that CSC had broken the law, you ignored my post over whether you'd resign on principle. Let's face it: If MS does something, you're all over them like a cheap suit; but if Sun or CSC does something, it just doesn't appear on your radar. You're a hypocrite, plain and simple. "Middleware in Windows?!? God forbid! Middleware in Solaris?!? Good!"
17 posted on 05/29/2002 6:59:42 PM PDT by Bush2000
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To: Dominic Harr
And MS is very, very guilty of using coercion to keep those from offering consumers other choices. A mountain of evidence was reviewed by MS-friendly appeals and Supreme courts.

All they had to do was ask Dell. Consumers don't want your alternative crapware. Dell tried offering Linux to consumers. Nobody bought. Sun can't even give away Java to OEMs. Theory debunked.
18 posted on 05/29/2002 7:01:34 PM PDT by Bush2000
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To: Dominic Harr
I am tied to Microsoft, but I have never been coerced into a Microsoft only solution. I have even gone into projects with Microsoft where an Oracle or UNIX server was in play. MS wants it all, but they do play fair.

When computer OEM's were complaining that MS made them pay a fee for each computer sold, regardless if it had an MS OS installed, they should blame themselves. Reason? Those same OEMs were cheating on their reporting to MS what computer had an MS OS installed in order to pay less. Hence, MS simply priced DOS as flat cost per computer sold. MS even lowered the price per computer.

These facts are never presented in the anti-MS argument.

19 posted on 05/30/2002 8:04:58 AM PDT by PatrioticAmerican
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To: Bush2000
When somebody pointed out their opinion that CSC had broken the law, you ignored my post over whether you'd resign on principle.

When they pointed that out, I agreed that the behavior was wrong and that CSC should be punished.

It's very interesting how the people tied to MS react -- deny everything, ignore the conviction, continue to support the crime and the criminals.

Point blank -- ya'll don't care that your corporate sugar daddy is not an honest business. As long as they have money, they can pay you to ignore the law, the ethics and normal common sense. You're no different than James Carville, Paul Begala, etc.

You'd defend Osama Bin Laden, if he paid you. Disgusting, but it *is* a free country, even for the criminals.

20 posted on 05/30/2002 8:12:31 AM PDT by Dominic Harr
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