High School Junior Asked To Leave School After She Refuses To Sing Jesus Christ Superstar Songs

WABC, Ch 7 NY ^ | June 19, 2002 | AP

[Matchett-PI]

"I recommend that you check out Posts #33 and ..."

This one?

#33:
The ROMAN Catholic church became an apostate organization of men when it reverted back to Arminianism also known as:

The Lie of Eden:
Satan said [paraphrased]: "If you disbelieve (disobey) and reject God's words [1] You will not [spiritually or physically] die, but [2] You will become like God and be able to say what is good and what is evil for yourself." [Gen.3:4-5]

When the Roman church went into apostasy between Augustine's day and the 16th Century, those who protested (called "Protestants" ) this reversion to Arminianism began the task of reforming the doctrines and conforming them to the universal (catholic) church that the Rock (Jesus) began. This effort is officially known as "The REFORMATION".

Since the REFORMATION, however, even many of the "Protestants", themselves have reverted back to the Arminian church that Eve (and her feminized husband, Adam) started in Eden. But that's another story for another time.

Roman Catholics revere two "Holy Fathers" which they are "obliged to obey" -- one living on earth in Italy and one in heaven.

St. Paul calls himself a Father to those whose conversion he had been an instrument of (1 Co. 4:15; Phil. 10); but he pretends to no dominion OVER them, and uses that title to denote, not authority, but affection: therefore he calls them not his *obliged*, but his *beloved*, sons. [1 Co. 4:14]

Mat 23:1 Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,

Mat 23:8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for ONE is your Master, [even] Christ; and ALL YE ARE BRETHREN.

Mat 23:9 And call no [man] your father upon the earth: for ONE is your Father, which is IN HEAVEN.

Jesus warned his disciples against the elite class of "professional interpreters" of Scripture and tradition who loved pretentious titles and positions of influence.

Scripture indicates that church officers in the New Testament were chosen by the whole congregation, and that final governing authority -- in NT churches -- rests with the whole church.

The reasoning behind that is that [1] accountability to the congregation provides a safeguard against temptations to sin. [2] some degree of control by the entire congregation provides a safeguard against the leadership falling into doctrinal error. [3] government works best with the consent of those governed.

In addition to those, there is another reason for restricting the authority of church officers [4] a.) the doctrine of the clarity of Scripture and b.) the doctrine of the __priesthood of ALL__ believers (the regenerate).

The NT affirms that ALL regenerate Christians have access to God's throne in prayer and ALL share as members in a "royal priesthood".

[1 Pet.2:9; cf. Heb. 10:19-25; 12:22-24] show that ALL Christians have some ability to INTERPRET SCRIPTURE and some responsibility to seek God's wisdom in applying it to situations. ALL have access directly to God in order to seek to know his will.

The NT allows for no special class of Christians who have greater access to God than others. Therefore it is right to include all believers in some of the crucial decision-making processes of the church. "In an abundance of counselors there is safety." [Prov.11:14]

When one studies the history of New Testament "church government", one can readily see that the bottom-up, checks and balances, Republican form of LIMITED government that America's Framers gave us, is based straight out of the New Testament CHURCH GOVERNMENT example. [Acts 6:3; 1:15, 22, 23, 25; 2Cor.8:19, etc.] Paul, Barnabus and Titus are shown as installing the elders that were chosen by the congregations [Acts 6:3-6; 14:23 and Titus 1:5].

Paul says to the whole church congregation: "Pick out from among you seven men of good repute, full of the Spirit and of wisdom whom we may appoint to this duty." (of servant aka deacon)

The apostles had the *UNIQUE AUTHORITY* to found and govern the early church, and they could speak and write the words of God*. Many of their written words became the NT Scripture.

In order *to qualify as an apostle someone had to have seen Christ with his own eyes after he rose from the dead* **AND** *had to have been specifically installed/appointed by Christ as an apostle.*

In place of living apostles present in the church to teach and govern it, we have instead the writings of the apostles in the books of the NT.

Those *New Testament Scriptures fulfill for the church today the absolute authoritative teaching and governing functions which were fulfilled by the apostles themselves during the early years of the church.*

Because of that, there is no need for any direct "succession" or "physical descent" from the apostles. -- READ IT AGAIN -- .

In fact it was not the Jerusalem apostles who ordained Paul and Barnabas, but people in the church at Antioch who laid hands on them and sent them out. [Acts 13:3] Ordaining is ultimately from the Lord, himself [Acts 20:28; 1Cor.12:28; Eph.4:11].

(Some of my comments about church government above were partially derived or paraphrased from Wayne Grudem's book on Systematic Theology Copyright 1994)

Here is more from Matthew Henry's Commentary (on-line) from the Blue Letter Bible website [snips]:

"Matt. 8–10. It is repeated twice; Be not called Rabbi, neither be ye called Master or Guide: not that it is unlawful to give civil respect to those that are over us in the Lord, nay, it is an instance of the honour and esteem which it is our duty to show them; but, 1. Christ’s ministers must not affect the name of Rabbi or Master, by way of distinction from other people; it is not agreeable to the simplicity of the gospel, for them to covet or accept the honour which they have that are in kings’ palaces. 2. They must not assume the authority and dominion implied in those names; they must not be magisterial, nor domineer over their brethren, or over God’s heritage, as if they had dominion over the faith of Christians: what they received of the Lord, all must receive from them; but in other things they must not make their opinions and wills a rule and standard to all other people, to be admitted with an implicit obedience. The reasons for this prohibition are,

(1.) One is your Master, even Christ, v. 8, and again, v. 10. Note,

[1.] Christ is our Master, our Teacher, our Guide.

[2.] Christ only is our Master, ministers are but ushers in the school. Christ only is the Master, the great Prophet, whom we must hear, and be ruled and overruled by; whose word must be an oracle and a law to us; Verily I say unto you, must be enough to us. And if he only be our Master, then for his ministers to set up for DICTATORS and *to pretend to* a SUPREMACY and an INFALLIBILITY, is a daring USURPATION of that honour of Christ which HE WILL NOT GIVE TO ANOTHER.

(2.) ALL ye are brethren. Ministers are brethren not only to one another, but to the people; and therefore it ill becomes them to be masters, when there are NONE for them to master it over but their brethren; yea, and we are all younger brethren, otherwise the eldest might claim an excellency of dignity and power, Gen. 49:3. But, to preclude that, Christ himself is the first-born among many brethren, Rom. 8:29. Ye are brethren, as ye are all disciples of the same Master. School-fellows are brethren, and, as such, should help one another in getting their lesson; but it will by no means be allowed that one of the scholars step into the master’s seat, and give law to the school. If we are all brethren, we must not be many masters. Jam. 3:1.

Secondly, They are forbidden to ascribe such titles to others (v. 9); "Call no man your father upon the earth; constitute no man the father of your religion, that is, the founder, author, director, and governor, of it.’’

The fathers of our flesh must be called fathers, and as such we must give them reverence; but God ONLY must be allowed as the Father of our spirits Heb. 12:9.

Our religion must not be derived from, or made to depend upon, any man. We are born again to the spiritual and divine life, not of corruptible seed, but by the word of God; not of the will of the flesh, or the will of man, but of God. Now the will of man, not being the rise of our religion, must not be the rule of it. We must not jurare in verba magistri—swear to the dictates of any creature, not the wisest or best, nor pin our faith on any man’s.

St. Paul calls himself a Father to those whose conversion he had been an instrument of (1 Co. 4:15; Phil. 10); but he pretends to no dominion over them, and uses that title to denote, not authority, but affection: therefore he calls them not his obliged, but his beloved, sons. 1 Co. 4:14.

The reason given is, ONE is your FATHER, who is IN HEAVEN.

God is our Father, and is ALL -- IN -- ALL in our religion. He is the Fountain of it, and its Founder; the Life of it, and its Lord; from whom ALONE, as the Original, our spiritual life is derived, and on whom it depends.

He is the Father of all lights (Jam. 1:17), that one Father, from whom are all things, and we in him. Eph. 4:6.

Christ having taught us to say, Our Father, who art in heaven; let us call no man Father upon earth; no man, because man is a worm, and the son of man is a worm, hewn out of the same rock with us; especially not upon earth, for man upon earth is a sinful worm; there is not a just man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not, and therefore no one is fit to be called Father.~~ [end excerpts] ~~

There is only ONE who is worthy of the title, "Holy Father" and he is in heaven.

There is only ONE worthy of the title, "Mediator" [between God and man], and that is Jesus Christ.

ALL the (living and dead) regenerate (in whom is the Holy Spirit of God), are saints and are members of the invisible universal (catholic) church.

The temporal (visible) church is composed of both the regenerate and the UNregenerate (the wheat and the tares -- the sheep and the goats).

God's redeemed (the Justified) are scattered all over in earth in *and out* of --

(depending upon the spiritual maturity [Biblical Christianity] that God has brought them to [sanctification process] at the moment)

-- all sorts of orthodox and UNorthodox VISIBLE church organizations of men.

The visible church of God is not headquartered in Italy, even though there no doubt are some spiritually immature Christians that belong to it and think that it is. :D

[Matchett-PI]

"I recommend that you check out Posts ... and #53"

Is this it?:

#53:

Jesus warned his disciples against the elite class of "professional interpreters" of Scripture and tradition who loved pretentious titles and positions of influence.

[1 Pet.2:9; cf. Heb. 10:19-25; 12:22-24] show that ALL Christians have some ability to INTERPRET SCRIPTURE and some responsibility to seek God's wisdom in applying it to situations. ALL have access directly to God in order to seek to know his will.

The NT allows for no special class of Christians who have greater access to God than others.

"But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God’s own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light (1 Peter 2:5, 9).

In the Old Testament economy there was a separate class of priests who mediated between man and God.

In the New Testament, however, we know that there is only "ONE mediator" between men and God: “For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus” (1 Tim. 2:5).

It is because of His high priesthood that we are all constituted priests of God, with priestly ministries:

Hebrews 10:19-25 Since therefore, brethren, we have confidence to enter the holy place by the blood of Jesus, by a new and living way which He inaugurated for us through the veil, that is, His flesh .."

[Uncle Meat]

Damn,it don't take much to get kicked out of school these days.I was practicaly begging to get kicked out and all I'd ever get is detention.It's getting pretty bad when they boot the church girls out and keep the juvey's in.

[ArGee]

The "opera" does not help the salvationary spread of the gospel.

I contest that assertion and submit myself as evidence.

Even if JCSS was totally wrong, JCSS steered me toward the Scriptures. If Rice was trying to hurt G-d, he merely forgot G-d's power.

I'll ask you again, does your pastor preach?

Shalom.

[ArGee]

I am sorry. If I had known the_doc was a rabid Catholic basher I probably would have spent more time ignoring him.

When will Christians realize that we are all on the same team.

While I don't always agree with the tenets of the Church's faith, I honor her love of Jesus and call every Catholic my brother. I'd rather convert Muslims than argue with Catholics.

I hope you did not connect me in any way with Catholic bashers.

Shalom.

[philetus]

"Gaffey wants to see his daughter graduate from Kellenberg next year"

WHY?

If the school is supporting something that the family believes is blasphemous, why would he want his daughter to continue there?

[the_doc]

What makes you think you even know the Christ of the Bible, anyway?

Most professing Christians in our day of easy-believism don't. The Lord said most nominal seekers would not even find, much less enter the narrow doorway of true conversion.

The antichristian deception is worse than you have realized. You need to wake up to this horror. The waking up is repentance unto life. If you think that JCSS is even close to the real Jesus, you are badly mistaken.

[ArGee]

What makes you think you even know the Christ of the Bible, anyway?

There are two things I am certain of right now.

1. I know Christ.
2. You don't know me.

Thanks for playing.

Shalom.

[the_doc]

Then why doesn't JCSS offend you? It definitely offends Jesus Christ, fellow.

[ArGee]

There is a question I have asked you that you have never answered. Does your pastor preach? I would really like an answer.

Shalom.

[Hemingway's Ghost]

I can't believe you're still fighting this battle!

[ArGee]

I can't believe you're still fighting this battle!

I suppose that if it were a real battle I wouldn't be fighting it any longer. But it's not really that hard right now, and the reward could be great. Not for me, mind you, but for the-doc.

Shalom.

[ArGee]

There is a question I have asked you that you have never answered. Does your pastor preach? I would really like an answer.

Well, I guess I'm not going to get an answer.

I just thought you'd like to know that I will be attending a local production of Jesus Christ Superstar Saturday night. I may think of you.

I know I will think of Jesus.

Shalom.

[Revelation 911]

And Satan does like to play shell games as to the matter of which folks are saved and which folks are lost. When someone with discernment uses the Scriptures themselves to clarify matters, Satan will ordinarily accuse that Christian of being a Pharisee. And he will use the real Pharisees in the case to make the accusation.

Corin, pardon my ping - but this was too prescious not to send your way -apologies if Ive intruded.

As for doc's comments, maybe ArGee should consider doc is noted for claiming arminians (typically methodists) believe the "lie of eden" and are "satanically screwed" or "satanists"- Oh the irony is sweet

Should we tell arg about how you threatened Dr. Kopp? - or are those your "good works"? -

[winstonchurchill]

Even if JCSS was totally wrong, JCSS steered me toward the Scriptures. If Rice was trying to hurt G-d, he merely forgot G-d's power.

I knew if I read far enough on this thread I would find something to agree with. I would take the contingency off the first clause; JCSS is totally wrong. It is a humanist protrayal of the Gospel of Christ. BUT, you are right, Tim Rice (and bitter little people like "the_doc") forgot (and regularly forget) the Power of God.

Worry not about 'the_doc' and others of his small-minded ilk, who shout lugubrious condemnations on all who disagree with their own embittered view of life. Jesus Christ overcame the Cross, He can surely overcome a rock musical with a humanistic bent.

There is a risk, however. One of my nieces once displayed her appalling historical ignorance about the Civil War and upon questioning explained that the sum total of her 'knowledge' came from her 'history' class in HS where her teacher played the (entirely fictional) movie "Glory" in lieu of any other study of the Civil War. She had no idea what she had missed (until I shared a little).

Similarly, the risk is that others will not be led (as you were) to go further and will think that they know something of Jesus Christ because someone put His name (without His permission, of course) in the name of a humanist rock musical. Now, the obvious riposte to this argument is that a lot of hard-hearted determinists like 'the_doc' regularly put Jesus' name on their hateful, manmade doctrines without His permission and with the same risk.

I have no answer to that one.

[winstonchurchill]

Most professing Christians in our day of easy-believism don't [know Christ].

As though you would know. Only a judgmental fool would make such a statement. You don't know "most professing Christians" and even if you did, you are ill-qualified to judge them.

Be accurate. What you meant was that, in your warped little construct, anyone who doesn't attend a church worshipping at the shrine of Little Johnny Calvin and his Construct Five is going to Hell.

My Bible doesn't read that way. Hope yours does -- and is printed on fire-resistant paper.

[Don Myers]

"I do have to wonder if it is homosexual priests putting on the musical."

That is something that will be in the mind of many people for some time to come whenever they think about Roman Catholic Church activities.

[narses]

"...the music is beginning to show up in regular services as well."

Oh dear, say it isn't so.

[ArGee]

Thanks for the offer, but the_doc has spoken for himself and it's pretty clear what his motivations are.

It is hard for Christians to distinguish between what Christ is calling us to in our personal relationship (special callings) and what Christ is calling all people to in their recognition of Him as LORD (general callings).

If we could get that straight, it would be a whole lot easier for Christians to get along.

A good place to start would be to read the Apostle Paul's greatings to the Galatians and to the Corinthians.

Shalom.