[history_matters]

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[OxfordMovement]

Sometimes people become ultra-conservative in one area of their life to compensate for their defeat in another area.

Interesting read.

[sola gracia]

Make no mistake, we are to keep God's commandments.

I wonder which commandments he is talking about?

[Windsong]

"We are still saved by grace through faith"

Hmmm, probably is against water baptism too. "JUST BELIEEEEEEVE! Nothin' else!"

Laughable.

[r9etb]

Well, here's a guy who uses a lot of words to say remarkably little.

Worse, he avoids the real question: On what basis does a church say "no" to this, and "yes" to that, without falling prey to the Pharisaical dangers he's warning us about?

He doesn't really tell us anything that helps us address it.

[Kevin Curry]

These things always swing from extreme to extreme. The denunication of pharasaism in this essay has planted within it the hard unmistakable seeds of "holier than thou" self-righteousness of its own.

Liberal churches are filled with orchards of such trees bearing self-righteousness of a different species but of the same deadly taste. Search their affirmations and you will find them exulting in the self-righteousness of "tolerance" and "nonjudgmentalism" as they embrace and celebrate lawlessness and gross sexual deviancy and imagine themselves holier than the fundamentalists they despise because of it.

The more things change . . .

[Ward Smythe]

This probably strikes more of a chord with those of us who grew up through the "Holiness" movement. What unfortunately happened, as Reasoner points out was that certain forms were adopted - don't drink, don't smoke, don't swear, don't dance, women don't cut their hair, women don't wear pants, etc., etc. and those were equated with "holiness" when that's not at all the holiness God calls us to. Unfortunately many in the holiness movement still live and die by these outward signs.

But I disagree with the author when he says While they continue to subdivide and separate from each other they are making no impact upon American society.

We just have to look at The Salvation Army alone to see the error in that statement. In the first few weeks at Ground Zero, the Chaplain there, the one that prayed with the firefighters as bodies were removed, was a Salvation Army officer. I am personally acquainted with the former General of the Army. He relayed a story of one Sally worker at Ground Zero. She was standing there, taking a break. A rescue worker came up to her and said, "I've never believed in God. I feel like I need to pray, but I don't know how. Do you know how to pray?" The SA worker said, "yes I do and prayed with the worker and shared the gospel."

There are many other examples. Yes, there's been a lot of hurt in the name of "holiness." But not from those who grasp the real message of the movement.

Christian Holiness Partnership

[Havoc]

3. (12) Now, for the Pharisees, they live meanly, and despise delicacies in diet; and they follow the conduct of reason; and what that prescribes to them as good for them, they do; and they think they ought earnestly to strive to observe reason's dictates for practice. They also pay a respect to such as are in years; nor are they so bold as to contradict them in anything which they have introduced; (13)and, when they determine that all things are done by fate, they do not take away the freedom from men of acting as they think fit; since their notion is, that it hath pleased God to make a temperament, whereby what he wills is done, but so that the will of men can act virtuously or viciously. (14) They also believe that souls have an immortal vigor in them, and that under the earth there will be rewards or punishments, according as they have lived virtuously or viciously in this life; and the latter are to be detained in an everlasting prison, but that the former shall have power to riveve and live again; (15) on account of which doctrines, they are able greatly to persuade the body of the people; and whatsoever they do about divine worship, prayers, and sacrifices, they performe them according to their direction; insomuch that the cities gave great attestations to them on account of their entire virtuous conduct, both in the actions of their lives and their discourses also.

The antiquities of the Jews - Flavius Josephus 18.1

I think this sums up pretty well the many things that are said with regard to the Pharisees in the NT. Matthew 16 Shows Christ Warning of the way both of the Pharisees and the Saducees. Josephus Notes that the Saducees have different beliefs and ways of handling things; but, when raised to a position of importance, proclaimed the doctrine of the Pharisees because the people would not long stand their own doctrines. Would that they had not withstood either!

[RnMomof7]

FYI

[malakhi]

This essay, and some of the replies to it, contain some rather sweeping generalizations. The Pharisees were not, as implied, a united movement. Rather, there were several schools of Pharasaism, the most important being the school of Hillel and the school of Shammai. The Hillelites taught a more lenient interpretation of the Law, in contrast with the rigidity of the Shammaites. The criticism Jesus is recorded as having made of the Pharisees is very similar to the sorts of criticisms that the Hillelites made of the Shammaites. IMO, Jesus's criticisms were in fact directed towards the followers of the school of Shammai, and not towards the Hillelites, who shared with Jesus a similar understanding of the Law.

They were so careful to avoid breaking God's commandments that they built a fence around them.

Ironically, this is precisely what Jesus does in Matthew 5. He teaches that not only must you avoid adultery, but merely looking with lust is committing adultery in one's heart. Similarly he teaches that anger is committing murder in one's heart. "Building a fence around the Torah" means avoiding situations in which one is likely to be tempted to sin. This idea is preserved in the Christian notion of "avoiding the near occasion of sin".

They added 248 commandments and 365 prohibitions to insure they did not even approach the original ten.

The 613 mitzvot (commandments) were not "added" by the Pharisees; rather, they are all found in the Torah. Judaism reads the Torah such that anytime God says to do something (or not to do something), that thing is considered a commandment. You would agree that there are many times outside of the 10 commandments that God commands something? For example, the first commandment found in scripture is to "be fruitful and multiply". Another commandment is the observance of Yom Kippur. A significant portion of these commandments have to do with the priesthood and the temple service, and thus are inapplicable when there is not a temple in Jerusalem. Others only apply within Eretz Israel, or under other particular circumstances. For the typical Jew living in the diaspora, probably only a few dozen of these 613 commandments would apply to him.

The Pharisees put the emphasis on externals. They wore special clothing to attract attention to themselves.

This is that kind of statement that bothers me. Does he really mean to suggest that all Pharisees were like this?

Scripture emphasizes the need of Love in everything the Christian does (1Cor.13) and Faith (Rom.14:23). The mature Christian must always be asking if what he is doing has both those elements. 'Pharisees' do neither.

you shall love your neighbor as yourself (Leviticus 19:18)

you shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. (Deuteronomy 6:5)

For an observant Jew, love of God and neighbor are considered commandments.

It is too bad that you are not in charge of salvation, I am sure it would be a lot tougher. Scripture is very clear, however, For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves it is the gift of God, Not of works lest any man should boast (Eph.2:8-9)

Interesting. Do you think you can be 'saved' without repenting?

if my people who are called by my name humble themselves, and pray and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin (2 Chronicles 7:14)

[TBP]

I've sometimes thought that the worst thing that happened to Christianity was when it became the state religion. The second worst may have been the exclusionary Council of Nicea, which basically threw out any writings that didn't agree with their elitist, hierarchical views.