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To: fortheDeclaration
This probably strikes more of a chord with those of us who grew up through the "Holiness" movement. What unfortunately happened, as Reasoner points out was that certain forms were adopted - don't drink, don't smoke, don't swear, don't dance, women don't cut their hair, women don't wear pants, etc., etc. and those were equated with "holiness" when that's not at all the holiness God calls us to. Unfortunately many in the holiness movement still live and die by these outward signs.

But I disagree with the author when he says While they continue to subdivide and separate from each other they are making no impact upon American society.

We just have to look at The Salvation Army alone to see the error in that statement. In the first few weeks at Ground Zero, the Chaplain there, the one that prayed with the firefighters as bodies were removed, was a Salvation Army officer. I am personally acquainted with the former General of the Army. He relayed a story of one Sally worker at Ground Zero. She was standing there, taking a break. A rescue worker came up to her and said, "I've never believed in God. I feel like I need to pray, but I don't know how. Do you know how to pray?" The SA worker said, "yes I do and prayed with the worker and shared the gospel."

There are many other examples. Yes, there's been a lot of hurt in the name of "holiness." But not from those who grasp the real message of the movement.

Christian Holiness Partnership

10 posted on 04/02/2002 6:49:58 AM PST by Ward Smythe
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To: Ward Smythe
Yes, there's been a lot of hurt in the name of "holiness." But not from those who grasp the real message of the movement.

Honestly, I think that next to no one in the Holiness movement in general, and perhaps a handful in the Conservative Holiness movement, have any real grasp of the message. Check out www.fwponline.cc, the website of the Fundamental Wesleyan Society, and the articles in the Armininian Magazine index page there, to see what I mean.

I think the Holiness movement lost sight of its message around the time it shifted the emphasis from Wesleyan entire sanctification that perfects us in love, to that of a second-blessing baptism in the Holy Spirit that enables us not to sin--the privilege of any Christian worthy of the name (see 1 Jn. 2:1, 3:7-10, 5:18, etc.).

But I have to say, the Salvation Army is probably the only one that still gets the message straight, at least as an organization. "Soap, Soup, and Salvation!"

TG

19 posted on 04/02/2002 11:45:10 AM PST by The Grammarian
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To: Ward Smythe
This probably strikes more of a chord with those of us who grew up through the "Holiness" movement. What unfortunately happened, as Reasoner points out was that certain forms were adopted - don't drink, don't smoke, don't swear, don't dance, women don't cut their hair, women don't wear pants, etc., etc. and those were equated with "holiness" when that's not at all the holiness God calls us to. Unfortunately many in the holiness movement still live and die by these outward signs.

I think Independent, Fundamentalist, Bible Believing, Baptists have the same problem!

But I disagree with the author when he says While they continue to subdivide and separate from each other they are making no impact upon American society. We just have to look at The Salvation Army alone to see the error in that statement. In the first few weeks at Ground Zero, the Chaplain there, the one that prayed with the firefighters as bodies were removed, was a Salvation Army officer. I am personally acquainted with the former General of the Army. He relayed a story of one Sally worker at Ground Zero. She was standing there, taking a break. A rescue worker came up to her and said, "I've never believed in God. I feel like I need to pray, but I don't know how. Do you know how to pray?" The SA worker said, "yes I do and prayed with the worker and shared the gospel."

Amen!

There are many other examples. Yes, there's been a lot of hurt in the name of "holiness." But not from those who grasp the real message of the movement.

I think that is the essential message of the article, a return to what the original movement stood for. Now, what you noted above is fine, but Christians never do good just for the sake of doing good, but do good in order to show their Christanity.

These groups (i.e.Salvation Army) have gotten very secular. In order to do more good they have compromised the Gospel lest they offend anyone!

Whatever we do, must be in the name of Christ

For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.(Rom.1:16)

23 posted on 04/02/2002 12:03:51 PM PST by fortheDeclaration
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To: Ward Smythe
Great observation about the Salvation Army. Thanks!
37 posted on 04/02/2002 8:13:59 PM PST by OxfordMovement
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