Posted on 05/10/2007 12:28:17 PM PDT by Gamecock
But Jesus doesn't here mean just stand up during the assembly, and tell everyone the problem. He means take it to the Church authority, so that the erring brother can be corrected and then, if necessary, excommunicated. And if he is excommunicated, then he is not merely excommunicated from the local assembly, but from the entire institutional Church. Otherwise, he could just move to a different city and remain in full communion with the Church. The efficaciousness of church discipline in the local assembly presupposes that the Church is one universal institution. We see this also in Acts 15, at the Council of Jerusalem. All the local congregations were under the authority of the Apostles and Elders. As the Apostles died, the elders were made bishops, and continued leading this universal institution, meeting together in synods and to ordain other bishops. The idea that the Church is merely the "set of all believers" was unheard of until the 16th century. That should help us rightly interpret the passages in Scripture that speak of the Church.
-A8
Some of God’s people seem to have a dire need for Him to give them judges. A personal relationship with Him seems just too impossible. It makes us lesser than a sparrow, but then again, maybe we are, because a sparrow has less ability to offend Him.
Right. Like the Mormons you believe that already the first generation of Christians after the Apostles had fallen into complete apostasy and utter error, since you reject and deny the authority and teaching of the bishops (e.g. St. Ignatius, St. Polycarp) who were ordained by the Apostles. For you, the gates of hell prevailed in one generation. (The Mormons try to rescue their position by saying that the gates of hell didn't prevail because the Church was preserved during this time in North America, claiming that Christ came to North America and preached the gospel to the Native Americans.)
-A8
Complete & utter error? Quite a reach you're making there.
From "The Apocalypse Of Saint John": But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaites, which I also hate.
Know who he was or any of the particulars about his heresy?
For you, the gates of hell prevailed in one generation.
Wrong. For me to believe that, I'd have to accept your definition. Since I don't, She still prevails.
(The Mormons try to rescue their position by saying that the gates of hell didn't prevail because the Church was preserved during this time in North America, claiming that Christ came to North America and preached the gospel to the Native Americans.)
That's nice, but we don't make that claim.
Nice assumptions, extrapolations and inferences.
Not the only plausible ones but, no doubt comforting to the RC edifice to construe things that way.
Some of God’s people seem to have a dire need for Him to give them judges. A personal relationship with Him seems just too impossible. It makes us lesser than a sparrow, but then again, maybe we are, because a sparrow has less ability to offend Him.
= = =
LOVE IT.
THX.
They didn't speak Greek either.
I never made the claim that belief in the Trinity "alone makes you a Christian."
Your dismissal of Protestants as non-Christians is pretty revolting, so I guess I shouldn't expect an honest debate from you.
“They didn’t speak Greek either.”
Yeah, HD, they most likely did and could write it too.
Not only did the Apostles speak Greek the Lord Jesus did as well:
No, not a reach. I'll give you two examples. Do you recognize the distinction between biship, presbyter, and deacon? St. Ignatius of Antioch (died in 107 AD) did. Do you accept that the Eucharist becomes the Body and Blood of Christ? St. Ignatius did. I could go on, but it would just be more Catholic stuff that you reject. St. Ignatius was a Catholic (he himself uses the term 'Catholic'), and he died (as an elderly man) in 107 AD. The Apostle John died around 100 AD. So either (1) the Church fell into complete error in the seven years after John died, or (2) John knew about all this apostasy in the Church but couldn't or didn't do anything about it, or (3) what St. Ignatius says is exactly what the Apostles were teaching. Which is it?
-A8
.
Yes
I could go on, but it would just be more Catholic stuff that you reject.
We consider ourselves to be catholics.
What do you mean by "catholic"?
-A8
Members of Christ’s universal church.
-A8
Nope.
I missed most of this debate, but I have read some interesting posts, in fact most of them are. Do Jews and Muslims worship the same God as the Christians?
Someone asked to define the "true God." I think that is a very important question. For, what makes the God of Abraham, or Allah, or Brahman different if the only criterion of a "true God" is that he is the only God?
What is really being asked is not whether God is one and the same no matter what we think, but whether we all worship the same idea of Who true God is.
I would say that we all worship a different divine idea, yet all those who call on one and only God call on one and only God there is!
I don't wish to downplay your article because it is extremely interesting.
and there we see the problem.
prots are in fact a reaction to a failure that instead of ixing the problem got ‘innovative’.
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