Blacks and the Confederacy

Townhall.com ^ | January 20, 2016 | Walter E. Williams

[zeestephen]

Without the slavery issue, I find it hard to believe that millions of Northern soldiers would have risked their lives just to “preserve the Union.”

In 1860, a majority of Americans had lived their entire lives within 100 miles of their birthplace.

The “Union” was simply a concept, and very few people, North or South, had personal experience with both cultures and their geography.

I can see that economic concerns about use of the Mississippi River would be very important to the North. And I can see that national security concerns about the redrawn borders of the USA would be very important, to both sides.

But those were issues that could be negotiated and, quite possibly, agreed on by both sides.

But I find it impossible to believe that, without the non-negotiable issue of slavery, the Civil War would have ever been fought.

[Bull Snipe]

The regiment was never accepted for service in the Confederate army. It was a unit of the Louisiana militia until disbanded in early 1862

[Boowhoknew]

Have relatives in Az. Flagstaff area. My aunt owned a chalet near the canyon I wished I’d gone see to when she was still alive.Her husband invented the Watts anti flowback valve for plumbing. He hung out with the Hopi until he died then. He told me he was drinking poodapai and seeking the Great spirit. Whatever poodapai is. I’m still stuck in a dying city in east central Ms. but I am getting a station wagon ready for the route 66 trip I plan on making if the world doesn’t fall down 1st.

[cowboyway]

..after Federal property was seized by force in South Carolina, by hothead radical secessionists; a stupid action under the existing circumstances...

A typical response from a typical statist who believes that the federal government is the almighty power and controller of all things, which was precisely Lincoln's position.

The hotheads were the abolitionist and radical republicans. The conservatives of the day were the Southern democrats who, following Jefferson's timeless words in the Declaration of Independence, (We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.) separated from the radical republicans. Lincoln ordered an invasion, which was a criminal act regardless of how you look at it, and proceeded to oversee the slaughter of 600,000+ human beings and the wanton destruction of an entire section of the country.

Timelines do count in history...

So does truth...

[central_va]

But I find it impossible to believe that, without the non-negotiable issue of slavery, the Civil War would have ever been fought.

Lincoln said the war was not about slavery. So believe it.

[Bull Snipe]

Exactly which unalienable rights had the Buchanan Administration so egregiously violated that secession from the Union was the only answer?

[rockrr]

Someone probably called someone else a “statist” LOL

[BroJoeK]

central_va: "They're coming. They always do."

DiogenesLamp: "It occurs to me that they have precious little to work with in the article from which this thread emanates.
It gives little support for their position..."

You guys are waaaay toooo funny!
You should go into stand-up comedy together, a lot of people would pay good money to hear you crack your jokes.

This thread is a perfect example.

;-)

[DiogenesLamp]

That is a true statement, however, in case anyone is of the opinion that slavery played no part in the manner in which the Civil War played out, one should take the time to read each seceding states Ordinance of Secession; one would thus be educated on the topic...

Let us say for the sake of argument that you are correct. Given that Slavery was legal and recognized by the Union as legal at the time, how does this justify an invasion into the land of people who want to rule themselves?

[DiogenesLamp]

..after Federal property was seized by force in South Carolina, by hothead radical secessionists; a stupid action under the existing circumstances...

Just as the Colonists seized the military equipment stored at the Armory in Concord.

Wasn't that stuff claimed by the King, but actually belonged to the Colonists?

[HandyDandy]

Darn it! You beat me to it! I had no idea that DiogenesLamp had such a great sense of humor! His, "A prominent "Black" conservative flatly stating that the war was not started to free the slaves........." is worthy of Benny Goodman!

Lemme try it again, "A prominent "Black" conservative flatly stating that the war was not started to free the slaves........" Yup, still funny. "not started to free the slaves" That is rich!

[cowboyway]

One of the most sacred: property rights.

[DiogenesLamp]

Each word becomes derogatory by northern definition because southerners speak it. Anything a southerner says is, by the fact of him saying it, derogatory and racist. And that applies to anything spoken by Christians, also, or more and more by white men who are not certified as PC.

I have long thought that the New York and North Eastern elite social circles (the prime movers in the USA) are still fighting the Civil War. It's as if they keep trying to convince themselves that their ancestors invading other people and forcing them under their rule was the right thing to do.

It's like a liar that keeps lying to himself in the hopes that he will eventually believe what he wishes to believe.

[JimRed]

From a song called “Johnny Rebel”, which I heard years ago but can not find anywhere on the net:

He was the symbol of those before the gun
Who died for what they thought was right in 1861...

[Bull Snipe]

The Confederate States of America committed an act of War against the United States, when they fired on Fort Sumter.
That act and Davis’s authorization of letters of Marque and Reprisal against U.S. shipping were all that the Lincoln administration needed to justify the use of armed force to put down the “rebellion”. Jeff Davis gave Abe Lincoln all the ammunition he needed to make war on the Confederate States.

[jmacusa]

The real joke here is how the hell the South ever thought it could win.

[Bull Snipe]

How was the Buchanan administration interfering with the property rights in say SC, ALA, or Miss.

[DiogenesLamp]

But I find it impossible to believe that, without the non-negotiable issue of slavery, the Civil War would have ever been fought.

You overlook the fact that not only was the South paying between 50% and 80% of the entire Federal Budget, (Yes, the Federal Government was primarily funded by slavery) but by forming a separate country, the south horribly undercut Northern Monopolies in Shipping and Tarriff's, resulting in potentially billions of dollars in losses for Northern Interests, specifically New York and Boston. (Where most of the Wealthy and influential people lived.)

Pea Ridge has posted numerous period letters from Northern Interests wailing about their losses of revenue. (The one about New England Businessmen demanding Lincoln DO SOMETHING about their secession related financial catastrophes would be appropriate right about now.)

Of course no one wants to go down in history saying they killed 600,000 people to restore their lucrative businesses and monopolies, so they insisted that it was for a "moral" cause, though if that were their prime motivation, they could have outlawed slavery in the five Union states that still had it. They could have removed the "beam" in their own eye first.

[DiogenesLamp]

Exactly which unalienable rights had the Buchanan Administration so egregiously violated that secession from the Union was the only answer?

The South was tolerant of the Buchanan administration. It was the election of Lincoln that convinced them there could be no compatibility.

Lincoln was the Barack Obama of his day.

Extreme Liberal from Illinois, obsessed with Racial issues, and intending to use every executive order at his disposal to undermine what was then existing law. Willing to misuse and abuse the Federal government to advance his own agenda, and to whom no one would stand up and tell him he was exceeding his authority.

His position was "If you want your slavery, you can keep your slavery." But nobody in the South believed him. They thought he was an opportunistic liar who exploited increasingly popular Liberal ideas from places like Massachusetts.

Southerners realized he couldn't be trusted to respect their rights; that he would undermine them in any way he could, and so they decided to preemptively solve the problem by exercising their voluntary right to leave the Union which was formed by their previous consent.

(Just as the Declaration of Independence said any people have a right to do.)

[DiogenesLamp]

You didn't refute my point. You simply attempted to make a joke.

What is there in this article that you can work with to advance your argument?