Our Republic and Our Free Republic

9-6-02 | Joe Phillips

[BADJOE]

History teaches some very good lessons. They are hard to learn but our forefathers did a great job.

From the beginning of time man has overthrown one form of centralized government only to re-establish another one in its place. Our forefathers understood this far better than anyone ever had. They said governments are the eternal enemy of free men. They said that in order for man to remain free it would take a bloody revolution every other generation, unless you bound down (bastard) government with the chains of the constitution.

On another site this week a poster asked if anyone else hated government as much as he did. I replied to him

"Hell !! I thought you were not a good American if you didn't love our country and hate our government.

At least that is how I have always felt about it"

I think our forefathers had the same attitude that I have now. And I think it is inherent in the average Americans attitude to distrust and have disdain for any government, including ours. One of the hardest conclusions I had to arrive at as a young man, after having been a product of the public school system, was that our government was not on our side. As James Forrestahl, former secretary of the Navy, who suffered a mysterious death, once said about our State Department's foreign policy, " Stupidity is never a mark of consistancy. If they were merely stupid, they would occasionally make a mistake in our favor".

Newt Gringrich put it in a humourous manner when talking about the attitude of Europeans. He related the following story. If you go to Europe and drive on the Autobahn, you feel pretty good cruising down the highway at 100 mph when some some German passes you doing 140 mph. Now he said if the Bundestag passed the 55mph speed limit law, every German would dutifully obey that law, untill the next election. They would vote the 55 mph crowd out of office and the no speed limit crowd in. In America Newt said "A speed limit sign is a benchmark of opportunity.

It is obvious that Yankees and Euros have entirely different attitudes about government's edicts. There are darn few Americans who do not break the speed limit laws everyday.

Now we come to the Free Republic. Once a free wheeling, joyful site for news and discussion of politics, economics, philosophy, ethics and morals. I could not understand the transformation that has taken place in the last six months. Camaraderie, the sense of family, and cooperation seems to have disappeared. Are the Freepers exhibiting the same disdain for the new FR as Americans have for our government?

[Howlin]

I do have a personality problem; it drives me up the wall when people are so full of themselves they believe what they say is right to the exclusion of all other views. Sue me.

[BADJOE]

Our job is to move the crowd our way.

A politician is one who is standing in the middle of the crowd, figures out which way it is moving and runs around in front and says "Follow me".

Once elected his primary job is to get relected. He figures those who voted for him before will do so again. But he wants even more votes so he moves in the direction of the opposition hoping to pick up a few of them.

Hence conservative politicians once elected almost always move left, and Liberal politicians once elected move a little to the right.

Damn few have the courage of any convictions. So if you want to move them all to the right, you have to get the crowd moving that way.

This is the primary reason we must abolish government schools. Because they teach our young to socialists.
We must take back our schools and start teaching American History as it happened.

[TLBSHOW]

BTW, why didn't somebody mention that the "meeting" had been moved to this thread since LP is down and out

LOL
and I had the 6th chapter ready to go too!

[habs4ever]

You've had 40+ years to push the electorate in the direction you wish, and you and yours repel more than you attract.And for that, you blame everyone but yourselves.Just why should anyone reach out to the malcontents such as you when what you offer is a punch in the nose?Your analysis is infantile, much like your ideology.You get less than 0.40% of the national vote yet expect to to be coddled because???

What is it that the libertarians/Birchers/anarchos offer? Hot air, anger, frustration, but nothing tangible, except endless sticks in the eye directed at those they feel have sold out.Just who the hell are you to say anyone sold out? Maybe you never grew up.

You're a loser, Joe.

[exodus]

"Hey, why don't we run a conservative guy in the NEXT election?"

To: exodus
Radical thinking like that MUST be stamped out! What would Jorge "The Messiah" Bush think? We know he doesn't like conservatives,and it would be unfair to force him to associate with them.
# 2564 by sneakypete

*************************

"Jorge" wouldn't like that, sneakypete.

He wants to be a two-term President.

[exodus]

Hey, you're online again!!

Welcome back, BADJOE.

[BADJOE]

I am not ignoring you Howlin. My modem keeps going in and out.

My guy won't be there till we educate our people to the benefits of limited governments and free unfettered markets.

I have been working in this vinyard of Liberty for 45 years and we are making progress. We got Barry GoldWater nominated. We got RR. We got the 94 Republican congress.

Please notice the years between victories is getting shorter.

We did not get into this mess overnight and we will not get out of it overnight, or with any one election.

[cva66snipe]

I had a good debate with a person the other night on the direction of this nation. The person thought our government was corrupt and basically it seemed as I read it not savable. I had to disagree on the fact it is not savable. The person also hated our government. Again I had to disagree.

Our government is indeed ourselves. We have the charge to elect leaders who are worthy and honorable enough to hold office. The most important branch is the Leglislative Branch. That is indeed the voice of We The People. The overseer of the Excutive and Judicary. If this branch is not held in check by us the voter we have no one but ourselves to blame for the corruption that exist in our government. We have no one but ourselves to blame when freedoms and rights are voted away by congress in Cloak Room deals.

I promise you if you elect to office of the house and senate just a third of those running who hold to their oath of office and are Constitution Based in their thinking and voting, the rest will fall in line. Change will come for the better. We do not have that yet especially in the senate. IF you elect and re-elect RINO's to office you will get a RINO's government. You will only elect and re-elect those who have absolutely no problem selling you or your beliefs out especially on key issues. They will not be persons you can count on. Why can't some not this yet? What is worse they only serve to split or divide the GOP. They make conservatives jobs 10 times harder because as committee members these beloved RINO's are voting down conservative policy.

I don't want a majority of any party. I want at least one third in the Leglislative Branch in both houses that will make the others so blasted misserable they will give in to them from being worn down. That people is statesmen. Not jerks who on a whim sell you out and call it a non partisan compromise. Guess what? Some of the founders actually despised each other to the point of dueling. At least they had some passion for something.

The government we have is only as good as the Leglislative Branch we elect. So why not the best? Why settle for a Media choice DEM party or a Media's choice GOP? If want bad government just walk right in that booth and give party you upmost loyality. If you want change and restoration put them on notice that they will do better or they will not be supported.

Go ahead call me naive. But to do what is being proposed to elected a person to office based soley on political party membership without consideration of their record and stands on issues is the same tyranny you curse in the DEMs. Is it some how excusable just because it is you and your party doing it? Change starts with the individual voter doing what is right. Our freedoms and our nation depends on our oversite and judgement. It is up to us to discipline the Leglislative Branch. With their record since 1995 I see absolutely no reason to reward them. Some are worty of office. Those who are not should have our contemp and disdain and not a blind support with the idea they will preserve this nation even if 99% of of the RINO's hold office in both houses. It's just not going to happen.

[FatherTorque]

Sue me.

I'll just do what I've been doing and ignore you.

[BADJOE]

Well said.

[Howlin]

Ronald Reagan wasn't an anarchist, for goodness sake.

And we ARE going to get out of it, with you or without you; the question you need to ask yourself is do you want to particpate or not. Just because we don't all agree with you doesn't mean we're wrong.

[FatherTorque]

What is it that the libertarians/Birchers/anarchos offer? Hot air, anger, frustration, but nothing tangible, except endless sticks in the eye directed at those they feel have sold out.Just who the hell are you to say anyone sold out? Maybe you never grew up.

You're a loser, Joe.

And I'd say you're some keyboard commando who hasn't done 1/10 of what Badjoe has done for this site.  He's earned his stripes around here by working, not by working his mouth like you.

[BADJOE]

I never said he was an anarchist.

Of course our disagreeing does not mean you are wrong.

It also means I am not wrong.

Hopefully we educate each other a little bit each time we have this dialogue.

[justshe]

Did you not consider the Bush win in 2000 a victory?

[Clinging Bitterly]

> you could vote for a third party conservative

You could do that, and I have done that. But in political bodies where the party majority is at stake, it's worth thinking about that issue. This year, I think winning a party majority is more important than what we get locally. Of course for me it is easy, because we have Gordon Smith running for re-election as a Senator from Oregon, and he is, while not a hard line right winger, a decent Mormon guy who could hardly be characterized as a RINO, and a narrow favorite against his Dem opponent (who's name I can't recall). And in the 4th district Congressional race, we have veteran "populist" and DPC member Democrat Peter Defazio against the Republican, who's name I can't recall. In that race, Defazio is going to win regardless of who the district minority Republicans vote for - It's a foregone conclusion that Oregon's 4th district will have zero influence on any change in party leadership in the US Congress. But going back to the Senate, while Smith is a popular Oregon politician, the broken glass Democrats can make a plurality here, and Smith's winning is very important to the nation's upper chamber - it's a no brainer.

Our Governor and State district races are another matter. My house district, now inhabited by the pretend Hispanic Castillo, will elect another Democrat, who's name I can't recall. In the Governor's race, we have, as you know, a Democrat running against a former Democrat. Given the dreadful state of affairs we have here, and in view of all the things that have come to pass over the last several years, it's obvious that electing Republicans over Democrats just won't make a goddam bit of difference, so we can afford to play around a bit here. Going back 12 years, knowing what I know now, I'd still vote for Al Mobely.

Dave in Eugene

[BADJOE]

I considered it a minor victory. Nothing earth shaking.

Now with the things he has agreed to, I am not sure it was even a minor one.

[justshe]

Dave..Dave....Dave.

This is the same Gordon Smith who had the honor of voting, after what...15 years?.....CEDAW OUT of committee?

This is the same Gordon Smith who panders to the Willamette Valley and all points North?

Smith is a joke. BUT...........he DOES vote Republican. For that I am greatful. Because when we take back the Senate we will have a HUGE job re: the 47% of all Federal Judges that now sit on the bench....47% apptd by Clinton.

[justshe]

Then you have not honestly contemplated the WHAT and WHERE and WHY we would be experiencing under President Albert Gore. Earth In the Balance would be his foreign policy.

[BADJOE]

And you have not considered the danger in the Patriot Act.

I see little difference.

[FatherTorque]

It's Party before Principle Joe, same thing they accuse them Dems of doing.