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Our Republic and Our Free Republic
9-6-02 | Joe Phillips

Posted on 09/06/2002 8:17:16 AM PDT by BADJOE

History teaches some very good lessons. They are hard to learn but our forefathers did a great job.

From the beginning of time man has overthrown one form of centralized government only to re-establish another one in its place. Our forefathers understood this far better than anyone ever had. They said governments are the eternal enemy of free men. They said that in order for man to remain free it would take a bloody revolution every other generation, unless you bound down (bastard) government with the chains of the constitution.

On another site this week a poster asked if anyone else hated government as much as he did. I replied to him

"Hell !! I thought you were not a good American if you didn't love our country and hate our government.

At least that is how I have always felt about it"

I think our forefathers had the same attitude that I have now. And I think it is inherent in the average Americans attitude to distrust and have disdain for any government, including ours. One of the hardest conclusions I had to arrive at as a young man, after having been a product of the public school system, was that our government was not on our side. As James Forrestahl, former secretary of the Navy, who suffered a mysterious death, once said about our State Department's foreign policy, " Stupidity is never a mark of consistancy. If they were merely stupid, they would occasionally make a mistake in our favor".

Newt Gringrich put it in a humourous manner when talking about the attitude of Europeans. He related the following story. If you go to Europe and drive on the Autobahn, you feel pretty good cruising down the highway at 100 mph when some some German passes you doing 140 mph. Now he said if the Bundestag passed the 55mph speed limit law, every German would dutifully obey that law, untill the next election. They would vote the 55 mph crowd out of office and the no speed limit crowd in. In America Newt said "A speed limit sign is a benchmark of opportunity.

It is obvious that Yankees and Euros have entirely different attitudes about government's edicts. There are darn few Americans who do not break the speed limit laws everyday.

Now we come to the Free Republic. Once a free wheeling, joyful site for news and discussion of politics, economics, philosophy, ethics and morals. I could not understand the transformation that has taken place in the last six months. Camaraderie, the sense of family, and cooperation seems to have disappeared. Are the Freepers exhibiting the same disdain for the new FR as Americans have for our government?


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To: Jim Robinson
"I know that the Democrats hate my country, hate the Constitution, hate God and hate human life. I see that the only Party capable of blocking and defeating the evil Democrats is the Republican Party." - JR -


Arthur Koestler:
The continuous disasters of man's history are mainly due to his excessive capacity and urge to become identified with a tribe, nation, church or cause, and to espouse its credo uncritically and enthusiastically, even if its tenets are contrary to reason, devoid of self-interest and detrimental to the claims of self-preservation.

2,741 posted on 09/21/2002 11:41:22 AM PDT by tpaine
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To: tpaine
The continuous disasters of man's history are mainly due to his excessive capacity and urge to become identified with a tribe, nation, church or cause, and to espouse its credo uncritically and enthusiastically, even if its tenets are contrary to reason, devoid of self-interest and detrimental to the claims of self-preservation.

Sounds like a description of the LP platform.

2,742 posted on 09/21/2002 11:50:08 AM PDT by Roscoe
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To: Roscoe
Everything, to you, is linked to your hate of liberty.
2,743 posted on 09/21/2002 11:52:21 AM PDT by tpaine
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To: tpaine
Just to obstacles in its path.
2,744 posted on 09/21/2002 11:56:25 AM PDT by Roscoe
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To: Roscoe
Exactly. Any obstacle in the path of your obsessional hate is 'evil, pure evil'.
Read Koestler again, and try to understand real evil.
2,745 posted on 09/21/2002 12:02:09 PM PDT by tpaine
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To: tpaine
Amen
2,746 posted on 09/21/2002 12:26:54 PM PDT by BADJOE
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To: Jim Robinson
I see that many races are so close that as little as a one percent siphon of conservative votes to a third party could be the difference between success and failure. I see allowing a Democrat to remain in power when it could have been prevented as a triumph of evil.

In most cases I would bet the GOP choice is a Liberal thus creating an enviroment for a need of third party voice or a voice of dissent between the other two running. A Socialist be it a Democrat, Republican, or whatever, is still by any means indeed a Socialist. Are the GOP Socialist some how a better Socialist than the Dems Socialist?

They have control of the DEM party if the current trend keeps up unchecked they will have control of the GOP as well. Actually I think they about do now. But I don't hear people saying let's kick out the Socialist in the GOP. I hear let's elect Republicans no matter what they stand for on issues as an individual. You must vote for a Republican. That only serves to give the Socialist a stronger foothold in the GOP. Going at it this way is like trying to put out a fire with water mixed with gasoline. They don't mix and the gas rises to the top then spreads the damaging fire.

The worse thing wasn't the DEMs taking the senate the worse thing to happen was the GOP by not fighting let them do it. It's simply dumbing down the party to put RINO's in Office. Do we not curse this approach in our schools? Look at the damage it's done there. The lowering of standard for all to please a minority or in this case running liberals to please a possible very slim number of Dem cross overs who likely just happened to hit the wrong switch anyway? Yet now it is now exceptable to do the same to the GOP?

This nation will only survive when it gets the will to do so. Let's stop dumbing down the GOP and start invoking higher standards of office within the party. Don't give others foothold to take it in the wrong direction that's my whole point here. If as you say the GOP is the last political hope the deluting it with the enemy you are fighting against is very self defeating. Until a higher standard is achieved it simply doesn't matter who leads the parade.

2,747 posted on 09/21/2002 12:55:40 PM PDT by cva66snipe
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Don't give others foothold to take it in the wrong direction that's my whole point here.

Now put this statement in the context of Liberal GOP Leadership vs Conservative GOP Leadership. I ask all of you are they or are they {The Liberal GOP Leaders} not doing this VERY THING to the CONSERVATIVE VOICE IN THE GOP? I INEED THINK THEY ARE. That's the problem and no I will not help them do it!

2,748 posted on 09/21/2002 1:04:45 PM PDT by cva66snipe
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To: Amelia
Thanks for the nomination! };^D)
2,749 posted on 09/21/2002 1:05:19 PM PDT by RJayneJ
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To: tpaine
Whatever floats your boat.... now lets see you get elected and change this system over night. You want, paineee
2,750 posted on 09/21/2002 1:11:22 PM PDT by deport
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To: BADJOE
Thanks Joe.

-- Koestler's words were primarily directed to the the disaster that "National Socialism" brought to us as WWII, but this mindset that your political opponents are 'pure evil' was, and is, a big part of our ~continuing~ disasters in american politics.
The 'Us vs Them' two party system is not working, and rousing calls for more of the same old tactics will just mire us deeper in the new 'Rinocrat' version of national socialism;
-- whose tenets are contrary to constitutional reason, devoid of any self-interest in liberty and detrimental to the claims of self-preservation or freedom. {apologies to Koestler}


"The continuous disasters of man's history are mainly due to his excessive capacity and urge to become identified with a tribe, nation, church or cause, and to espouse its credo uncritically and enthusiastically, even if its tenets are contrary to reason, devoid of self-interest and detrimental to the claims of self-preservation." - Koestler
2,751 posted on 09/21/2002 1:14:17 PM PDT by tpaine
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To: deport
Sigh, - deport, listening to you and the rest of the big government apologist/appeaser types on threads like these, - is really getting depressing. You people have given up on liberty, imo.
JR recently reconfirmed that he firmly supported this overview:

"Free Republic is a place for people to discuss our common goals regarding the restoration of our constitutionally limited republican form of government. If people have other agendas for FR, I really wish they would take them elsewhere."

Thanks, Jim
226 posted on 2/7/02 4:01 PM Pacific by Jim Robinson
_________________________________

It sometimes appears that very few freepers ~in reality~ have this same agenda as to restoration. - tpaine
_________________________________


"Whatever floats your boat.... now lets see you get elected and change this system over night. You want, paineee"

Thanks for your oh so pithy comment, deport. Very insightful.
2,752 posted on 09/21/2002 1:21:11 PM PDT by tpaine
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To: tpaine
Go Painee go... Be sure and flag everyone when you all get elected so that you can change things.... Hmmmmm. any chances in 2002?..... How about 2004?..... maybe 2006? Or are they all about like.... 2000? Now holler you hear?
2,753 posted on 09/21/2002 1:26:26 PM PDT by deport
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To: deport
More pith. How telling.
2,754 posted on 09/21/2002 1:29:15 PM PDT by tpaine
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To: tpaine
Yep pith is what ol' painee gets..... LOL....

GO paineee go.


And what is this evil that triumphs when good men do nothing? What are we really talking about here and is it worth fighting for? Is it worth turning our heads and allowing evil to continue on while we do nothing? (and I count voting for a third party candidate when knowing that he has absolutely no chance of defeating the Democrat, and worse, actually planning and hoping to knock out the Republican candidate who otherwise might have defeated the Democrat, as doing nothing).

2725 posted on 9/21/02 5:24 AM Central by Jim Robinson


Now you all be sure and ping when you get elected to something and begin all these big changes.... you hear? Or maybe the days of the buggy whips are gone forever.....
2,755 posted on 09/21/2002 1:36:00 PM PDT by deport
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To: deport
whatever
2,756 posted on 09/21/2002 1:46:46 PM PDT by tpaine
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To: tpaine
Yep that's what I told you some post back..... glad you finally came around.......

Go painee go. You da ... well whatever

2,757 posted on 09/21/2002 1:49:17 PM PDT by deport
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To: cva66snipe
Well, I hate big government. I believe the Founders intended for government to remain severely limited in power, size and scope. The limits have been removed by successive populist, progressive and liberal governments.

Government excesses need to be rolled back and the limits enforced and our Liberty restored. That is a fact and I doubt many FReepers would disagree.

I hate socialism in all it's forms. I think the income tax is an unconstitutional slave tax and that it should be repealed and replaced with an excise tax as the founders intended. I think social security is also an unconstitutional slave tax and should be repealed and not replaced. The same can be said of medi-care or any socialized health care program. The founders never intended any of this.

I hate government involvement in education. The public school system has become nothing but an expensive socialist government indoctrination camp. We can go on and on with all of the things that are wrong with this government and need to be fixed or removed, mostly removed, and I know that both parties share in the blame for much of this.

However, I see the Democrat Party as the leading cause and the primary mover for socialism in America. Their goal is to expand government and socialism even further. They will not rest until we have a completely socialized health care system.

They'll continue expanding their evil government funded abortion programs. Their taking of God and faith from every aspect of our public conscience and replacing it with homosexuality, feminism, and whatever other victimhood program they can institute.

Their goals are to systematically remove whatever defenses we may have left. They'll take our guns. You can bet on that. They'll take our right to campaign for the values we hold dear. They'll take our right to speak out or to openly resist.

Their goals include removing any all remaining constitutional restraints that stand in there way and then completely surrendering the last hopes for freedom and national sovereignty.

When President Gore or President Hillary signs the next round of international treaties, they'll be turning the keys for America over to the U.N. and other socialist world government organizations. These treaties are on equal footing with the Constitution. They become the supreme law of the land. That is the way they will finally destroy the final constitutional limits and destroy American freedom once and for all. A shot will never be fired, but we will lose it all.

And, yes, there are some Republicans who allow this to happen. Even some who join right in there. I'd love nothing more than to dump them with the evil Democrats, however, there is one giant obstacle. Political majority.

In this two party system, the party that holds the majority is the party that controls the agenda. They choose who will chair the committees and what legislation will be moved and what legislation will be killed. They control which nominees get voted on and which get shunted aside. They effectively control the judiciary. They ratify the treaties. A Democrat majority plus a handful of liberal Republicans and it's all over.

Wall-to-wall liberal activist judiciary, nothing but expanding socialist government programs as far as the eye can see, and nothing but sovereignty and freedom robbing treaties on the horizon.

You can dump the moderates and liberal Republicans if you wish, but what are you going to replace them with? Democrats? Surely you do not believe that a Libertarian or other tiny conservative third party candidate will defeat a liberal in a liberal state or district?

You will give up the Republican and give the seat to the Democrat. That's like a two for one free gimmee for the socialists. That will only make it that much harder to obtain a Republican majority.

I'll keep the moderates and attempt to dump the democrat in any race, thereby maintaining or increasing the Republican majority. There is no other way to block the socialists. We must overcome their votes.

Support and vote for the most conservative candidate, hopefully a Republican, in the primaries. That's where we can increase conservative influence and send the message. But vote for the Republican in the general election. That's were we directly re-take or increase the majority and maintain the block on the socialist agenda, and, hopefully, someday soon that majority will be large enough and conservative enough to actually start rolling it back.

2,758 posted on 09/21/2002 2:05:26 PM PDT by Jim Robinson
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To: deport
A pithy, -- "If it floats your boat", started this, "some posts back".
- So indeed, whatever.
2,759 posted on 09/21/2002 2:09:13 PM PDT by tpaine
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To: tpaine
Yep better to float than sink as most "3rd parties" do....

GO paineee go

2,760 posted on 09/21/2002 2:14:30 PM PDT by deport
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