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To: Sean_Anthony; harpo11; maine-iac7; outlaw1_2003; coldwar; FearGodNotMen; Mathemagician; ...

"The conflicts in the Middle East can not resolved leading to sustainable peace until the U.S. and the West develop a strategy for energy security and self-sufficiency."

Well here is somebody who is at least looking at the whole scope of the problem---seeing Islamacsim as a component of the larger anti-west alliance. I would say what we need to do is recognize that our primary enemies are Russia and China. once we do this, we need to start applying economic sanctions to these two countries and a slow, measured, and systematic fashion. The worse their behavior gets, the more fully we would cut them off. This would bring China (and their North Korean puppet) in-line quite instantly as China is completely economically dependent on us. Russia less so, but I believe we could gain control even with them. just told them directly responsible for Iran's actions, since Iran would not be any kind of appreciable power without Russian arms.

To exit from my Ping list, just send me one request to that effect, public or private.


2 posted on 07/27/2006 6:18:29 AM PDT by strategofr (H-mentor:"pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it"Hillary's Secret War,Poe,p.198)
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To: strategofr

"China is completely economically dependent on us. Russia less so, but I believe we could gain control even with them. just told them directly responsible for Iran's actions, since Iran would not be any kind of appreciable power without Russian arms."

China does need us a little but really only to finish milking us in trade imbalances/currency. They have used this liquidity to build a nice navy, air force and small nuclear arsenal. your forgetting that these countries are run by communists. Russia we will never control at all.


3 posted on 07/27/2006 6:31:45 AM PDT by quantfive
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To: strategofr
Gaining any control over the brown bear and the panda bear is not likely to happen. We are dealing with three civilizations, that differ quite widely in their construction/origins.
All one can do is attempt to maintain military and geopolitical parity with them. Or in some cases come out a bit ahead. As long as the world markets provide a lot of money to them both, they shall increase in stature. Without having to go into long treatise that I am ill prepared to deliver, I do think we shall continue for many years playing cat a mouse with these two nations. Big guns aimed at one another have a tendancy to cancel out any outright agression, but allow for a lot of rhetorical games to be played. It is not in the interest of either of our real enemies to want to allow for us to gain a upper edge.
The one world trade system, in effect allows for them to stay in the ball game. Russia is becoming a real energy producing giant. Why should they want to play by our rules.
5 posted on 07/27/2006 10:49:11 AM PDT by Marine_Uncle (Honor must be earned)
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To: strategofr

(The Axis of Evil) The real axis of evil today is N. Korea, Syria, and Iran. As defined by president Bush years ago. Those are the ones today that are dangerous and defined enemies of the free industrialized world. However, the enablers, like Russia and China in part fuel the danger by resisting any economic sanctions be brought forth (They profit from the status quo) and even arm these belligerents. Trade with these rough states keeps their economies viable and those vile regimes in power.

(The enablers) Russia and China are enabling nations and bottom feeders. They are nations that play it both ways and want to profit from dealing's woth rough states but also the West. They also see the US and other in the West still partially as their enemy and see anything being weakening our position as good. The are the axis of weasels in reality.

(The antagonist who is no direct enemy) Nations like Venezuela are antagonists and have their own internal agenda they pursue, but they are no direct belligerent who is bent on our destruction. Even within NATO you have antagonists who are working for pure self interest and at times work against the collective interests; France is a perfect example. In the end, even France shares all our strategic goals but they see power and rewards in opposing us at times and their motivation or participation on nearly any mission is "pure" self interests.

(The fair weather friend) These are the states that are on our side and know it. They cooperate and their national interests as moral beliefs/culture is completely with us but they simply for whatever reason lack the resolve to take large scale action. They are on the side lines and on occasion participate a little but generally avoid volunteering taking a proactive position and do as little as need be just to slip by and avoid confrontation with others reference how little they do. They expect the US to clean up the mess. Example: Germany, Italy, Spain, Japan.....

(The full ally) Finally there is the full player and participant. Those are the ones who carry their full weight, and pay the cost in blood, terror, economics and even politics. Example: Australia, Netherlands, and Great Britain.


6 posted on 07/27/2006 1:50:21 PM PDT by Red6
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To: strategofr

China is economically dependent on us; but that card can only be played once. China is also economically dependent on the Middle East and its oil, as we are. Everything made (here or elsewhere) has an energy component, and as that goes higher, it results in a practical reduction in productivity, inflation, and unemployment. Nations with a labor cost advantage but rising energy costs are going to suffer worse because the price of everything they import will rise a lot, while most of the stuff they export mostly can't rise in price without drastic loss of sales.

I wholeheartedly agree that China and Russia are two of our primary enemies, but Islam is the third, and is the common enemy of all non-Moslems. Russia massacres the Moslems of Chechnya, and meanwhile backs Iran / Hizbollah / Syria (not to mention Venezuela / Cuba) against the US. China is in the midst of an unprecedented military buildup that began with the collapse of the USSR.


7 posted on 07/27/2006 5:16:17 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (updated my FR profile on Thursday, July 27, 2006. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: strategofr

Break ground for a thousand nukes in the West ans see how quick Russia and Iran get smart.


9 posted on 07/27/2006 6:07:50 PM PDT by spanalot
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To: strategofr

I would say what you need to do is recognize that your primary enemy is exorbitant greediness of your oligarchy who poke nose into all around.

It is a pity that brains of plain guys is raked over the coals. Russia (present-day Russia if you will) isn't aggressive state - enough to rattle the sabre.


17 posted on 08/04/2006 2:04:15 AM PDT by truecolor
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To: strategofr

"Well here is somebody who is at least looking at the whole scope of the problem---seeing Islamacsim as a component of the larger anti-west alliance. I would say what we need to do is recognize that our primary enemies are Russia and China. once we do this, we need to start applying economic sanctions to these two countries and a slow, measured, and systematic fashion. The worse their behavior gets, the more fully we would cut them off. This would bring China (and their North Korean puppet) in-line quite instantly as China is completely economically dependent on us. Russia less so, but I believe we could gain control even with them. just told them directly responsible for Iran's actions, since Iran would not be any kind of appreciable power without Russian arms."

Yes, we need to understand Russia and China as enemies, we are doing this resulting in those harsh remarks to Russia by Cheney as of late. Not much else we really can do about Russia except beef up our allies military and provide access into NATO which is happening. Most outside investors are staying clear of them and they have plenty of energy resources to provide capitol to re-growth of their military.

I disagree that China depends on us, in fact they have over 1 trillion dollars worth of our bonds. They could cause us big pain any time they wanted to economically.

I agree with the author on replacing ME oil with alternatives. It's our whole way of life at stake. Private investors and some government subsidies, easing of restrictions has accelerated this process but the greed of oil companies, Washington politicians and lobbyists are going to ensure this takes at least two decades, instead of a scant few years.


19 posted on 08/04/2006 1:33:46 PM PDT by quantfive
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To: strategofr

When the USA becomes energy efficient or if the world changes from oil to another energy source, IMO things will get much worse.

The Middle East produces nothing but a woman beating cult of homicide bombers. They really don't make anything, so there would immediately be starvation in that region on a grand scale.

I think every government there would topple with no or less oil need and radical Islam would rule the day there.

At that point it would be the whole world versus radical Islam and I think we could see up to a 50% death in the entire populations of the Middle East.

That is what I see happening when oil isn't valued that much or used too often in the future.


21 posted on 08/04/2006 1:45:02 PM PDT by A CA Guy (God Bless America, God bless and keep safe our fighting men and women.)
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